HEY YOU PILOTS! IS THIS REAL! PLEASE ANSWER!!!!!!

[Jenny@Nw]

it's about airlines hiring minorities that are kinda..... underqualified....
take a gander and reply! http://www.untied.com/feature/

[Delayed]

Wow...there is a lot of hatred from that pilot! Whats sad is that they are probably a very raciest person. I feel sorry for those who he flys with.

Now...I do feel that pilots should be qualifed and able to do their job. I do not think that their ability as a member of the flight deck crew should be based on their sex, race, age orr sexuality.

Just my 2 cents

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Up! Up! and Away!

[lineguy]

I have no particular opinion either way. However, I happen to know United Airlines has a significant history of hiring minority pilots either black or female or both with flight hrs WAY below that of other major airlines. My cousin was a Coast Guard Academy graduate with 4000 hrs in the C-130 most of it in bad weather flying in Kodiak , Alaska and United didn't give him the time of day but hired a female with 350 hrs no turbine time to fly sideways in the DC-10. While these comments by this particular pilot might seem racist he has a valid point. The airlines have had a rough time finding qualified minority applicants and have had to lower the bar to balance the scale if you will. Every pilot knows the FAA minimum for commercial pilots is low, most airlines requirements are far above the minimum. All I can say is if I were a pilot I would not want to pick up the slack for someone who should not have been hired in the first place.

[Jenny@Nw]

yeah no kidding
kinda racist yet my eyes just opened when I saw 350tt
it's not fair for all the people who struggled to get up there who survived on pork and beans and ramen just to get those ratings.
It might make one person a racist in some aspects but it's up to us as an indivisual not to be like that(retarded racist) when you see someone because of their gender or their race. I agree with you line guy, dont pick up the slack....
I wonder if I would qualify if I state that my great grandma was a minority...
hmmm....
it is really sad that we come to this in this era

[BlueSkies]

Just MAYBE if RACIEST behavior had NOT keep minorities OUT of decent schools and jobs in the past, airlines like UNITED would not have had to be sued by the U.S government and forced to hire under a concent degree. Getting a taste of being turned down for a job that you are qualified for is not a pleasent experience. Try being treated like that for 300 years.

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E PLURIBUS UNIM! North, By Northwest...

[BlueSkies]

I assume that this UAL pilot feels that EVERY White male pilot is far superior than any minority or female pilot. Frankly, UAL should be more concern with hiring employees with this kind of pathetic mentality.

[lineguy]

It would not be like me to defend a pilot weather white or not. However, I don't give a damn about what happened 300 yrs ago. Discrimination is just that, weather it in the past to the blacks or present day which is the white male it is wrong. If you are qualified for the job fine, but I don't believe in lowering standards for any reason. especially when dealing with safety. I would like to interject that my dealing with our female pilots from a mechanics point of view has been much better than with our male counterparts. The female pilots atleast have some respect for my job and don't automatically think because they are a "pilot" that they know my job too like the male pilots so often do. Oh and by the way the male pilots don't have a clue about what I am doing.

[flyboydc]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Arial, Verdana ">quote:<HR>All I can say is if I were a pilot I would not want to pick up the slack for someone who should not have been hired in the first place.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

While it may be true that some women and minorities are hired with fewer flight hours or qualifications than other white pilots, we must be careful not to draw from that fact a conclusion that they are unqualified, or unfit to pilot an aircraft.

Back when I was in college, there were certainly some students admitted who had lower grades than others. But they still met the minimum qualifications for admittance, which were quite stringent, and these people made excellent students.

(Now, I know someone will read that and think, "But colleges and universities don't carry living people across oceans and continents." This is certainly true, but the ideology of affirmative action remains the same.)

[BlueSkies]

It is very easy for one to say that they don't care about what happened 300 years or two years ago. The fact remains that most of these White male pilots enjoy the institutionalized position of going though their day without having to be looked at through their skin color, or sex. I find it amazing that it is assumed that because a pilot is a White male that he AUTOMATICALLY knows what the hell he is doing above and beyond a female or minority pilot. That is the mentality that has created this sense of ENTITLEMENT. Racism PUT most of these Senior pilots in the "Captain" positon when America felt it OK to practice the same policies as Nazi Germany.These racist practices prevented female and minority pilots from being hired. It is wrong to discriminate against anyone, but this way of thinking should have come into play before the rank and file was reserved for JUST White male pilots. Most female, and minority pilots that I have known have had to prove themselves twice as good as White male pilots. As far as getting hired at a major with 350 hours? What a vicious piece of crap. Anyone who can read, can find out that the min. required hours JUST for an interview is more than that. Save that kind propaganda for idiots. I think the real reason that some of these people complain is that they just can't stand to see someone OTHER than a White male in that damn cockpit with them. The club is NOLONGER reserved just for them. GET used to it!

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E PLURIBUS UNIM! North, By Northwest...

[lineguy]

Take it easy BlueSkies,
I did not mean to imply that females and minorities are not qualified. But the fact is a commercial pilots licencing requirements consists of 250hrs. You do not need an ATP to get hired on at a major. I also am not refering to NW either my comment was strictly aimed at UNITED who did hire atleast one female with between 350-650 hrs flying DC-3's and a graduate of Embry Riddle university. This was atleast 10 or more yrs ago when UAL was under considerable pressure to balance the scales if you will. In other words UAL was running the good o'l boys club. I don't remember if they were sued or if this was part of a consent decree, anyway they put her in the FE seat in the DC-10. I also don't like the inference that I am a liar. Like I said in my earlier posting I prefer female pilots over male pilots. I have flown on our A/C many times with a woman in command once was with Julie Clark the airshow performer. So I am far from prejudiced. My opinion and this is my own is that when you lower standards just because of race and or gender and not demand, it creates not only animosity with their peers but makes it harder for the truly qualified minorities with plenty of hours of flight time to get any respect. Same is true of police and firefighters also. Did you know the N.J. state police exam takes a score of 80 to pass but if you are a minority the passing score is 67. Something to think about! By the way I don't care for pilots anyway they have no respect for my job. Notice I didn't say "career" only pilots have those.

[traveler]

Thanks for generalising with that last remark, lineguy.
You don't even know me and you already don't care for me because of what I do ?

[Erin]

I am a flight attendant, but agree with traveler that we shouldn't judge people by their job.

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If we are what we eat, then some pilots should eat more chicken

[BlueSkies]

Look, it is not my intention to demean anyone. And generalizations are what started this conversation. Not all pilots feel the same as that idiot at United. I certainly don't think they do. I happen to be the product of a White male (Pan Am 747-check airman. And a Black female student who was given the chance to go to a good University (because of affirmative action)and progressed well beyond most of her peers to achieve a Doctorate in Bio Chemistry. Human beings are Human beings. But because of our history in the U.S. we must seek to remedy past wrong deeds that created our present state at the cost of others. At least we talk about this stuff, and NOT try to ignore it as if it will just dissappear. I have tried to look at the WHOLE picture when thinking aobut our country's history and present state. We will get there someday! We should all try everyday to make this a better nation by applauding the strength of our diversity. Ok, I have said enough. Safe flying to all!

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E PLURIBUS UNIM! North, By Northwest...

[Saab-driver]

I am with Line guy on this issue. Currently I am a Captain at a part 121 reginal airline that employes more than 1000 pilots. So I am speaking from experience of what I have seen.

First of all. If you are a female, United Airlines gives you a mentor to lead you through the application process and interview process. This is not given to males. You can verify this by calling the Human Resource office at United.

Second of all. A person becomes very bitter when most (if not all of the females) get an interview and then a job offer when they do not have a single hour of Turbine PIC. The average time a male has when he gets an interview offer is around 1500 hours of Turbine PIC with 5000 hours total time. A person can verify this by simply looking at my company's statistics. We have a ratio of about 75%-80% male to 20-25% female pilots. Which is average in the industry. Less than 2% of those females are Captains. And not a single one is a Captain for our Jets (which requires about 4 years of senority). So what happens to these female pilots? They are hired as "low time" pilots for the majors. Not to say that they are not qualified, because they do meet the minimum standard for the company. And they still have to pass all the check rides and tests. What I am saying there are many people more qualified to move on to the majors. Why do I have to have 1500 hours Turbine PIC and 5000 hours Total time to be competitive because I am a man.

I believe that affermative action is working against me. I feel that it is discriminating against me. I know this will probally make Blue Skie mad, but you cant argue against what I feel. I feel that I am not responsable for what happened 200 years ago. I do believe there is discrimination out there against everybody. We do not live in a perfect world. I accept that. So I will get my 1500hours of PIC here, and move on to my dream job eventually.

[lineguy]

Sorry traveler,
I guess my experiences out on the line have made me a little bitter. I seem to forget there are some real good crews out there and there are also some real smartass mechanics outthere that make the pioots bitter. I guess that is the problem with generalizations not everyone is the same. We need to remember that!!!!! Happy Flying.

[dbrownie]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by lineguy:
[B]Take it easy BlueSkies,
I did not mean to imply that females and minorities are not qualified. But the fact is a commercial pilots licencing requirements consists of 250hrs. You do not need an ATP to get hired on at a major.

That is sure the truth we (NWA) just had a internal hire that was a natco instructor
hired with 330 hours. Yes only 330 hours.
So like the old story goes...
Who ya know

[Airbus]

What are we talking about here, hiring pilots with just a "few hours" or are we talking about racisme?
The first of the two I don´t know much about however the second one, racisme, is an absolute no!
All wo/men are equal! pilot, manager or president, he or she who is racist should go flying!

OUT OF THE DOOR!

To my opinion every self respecting company should fire a racist as soon as they can.

[traveler]

Okay than, we seem to all agree again.

[lineguy]

Amen!!!!

[Chicago]

BlueSkies speaks the truth.

I know I wanted to go ballistic when I overheard some senior mama FAs placing bets about how "slow" me and the other 'minority' FA will be doing the meal service. They didn't even know us...

"You know they always think they're deadheading until we crack that whip on their fannies." --Yep, they went there.

The point? People are STILL making bad judgments about WHOLE GROUPS OF PEOPLE based on skin color. These same people are the same ones who will NEVER believe that minorities can be as qualified as some smug, self-serving white person. Folks, I caution you to resist your natural temptation to stereotype minorities or women as being "not as good" as you. It can be a very humbling experience. I've humbled several racist white people. Not with any confrontation, but simply because I was smarter and more professional than they. It spoke volumes and made them look like the idiots they were.

For those of you who feel that us "unqualified" minorities are stealing your god-given jobs, I challenge you to name 10 black or Hispanic CEOs, Presidents, or Captains of 747-400s. The numbers of minorities in positions that matter are so few, I frankly don't understand why so many whites are screaming "reverse discrimination" all the time. Trust me, it IS possible that a competing non-white (or female) candidate could be MORE QUALIFIED than you.


BlueSkies wrote:

&gt;&gt;I think the real reason that some of these people complain is that they just can't stand to see someone OTHER than a White male in that damn cockpit with them. The club is NO LONGER reserved just for them. GET used to it!&lt;&lt;


He hit the nail on the head.

[travatl]

This is a hot topic in more ways than one, and I felt compelled to respond to it.

First, let me say, there is not a racist bone in my body, and I do care vehemently about "what happened 300 years ago"..BlueSkies. Racism, hatred, and discrimination are tragic , unforgiveable acts that inherently destroy humanity. I am 28yo a white male who has friends and respected colleagues from EVERY walk of life.

I feel, however, that with respect to airline hiring practices, or any industry for that matter, affirmitive action is something whose time has come and gone. Yes, it was desperately needed to allow those with AMPLE QUALIFICATIONS who were being discriminated against for whatever reason to break into the various industries. And they have....for the most part successfully.

However, let each company now stand on it's own hiring practices. If an individual feels that they were declined a position because they were black, or croation, or female, or gay, or jewish, or whatever, let them make that case, that they have the same credentials and qualifications as others, but that THE COMPANY has a history of not hiring specific minorities. Understand, I'm not implying that those who have gotten jobs via affirmitive action are less qualified or are less-skilled aviators (in the pilot realm) than others. But unfortunately, this is being taken too far.

And Chicago, as for the bitches you overheard saying it was going to take you forever with the meal service...tell them to "kiss your ass". It is their ignorance that their spouses have to go home to every night.

Regards, Travis

[lineguy]

Hey dbrownie,
I would like to know who it was NW hired with only 330 hrs. I had heard they kept the internal hiring program open to accommodate a natco employee. I also heard that the internal progam was ended primarily because of a female F/A who sued NW afer she was washed out of the program. Don't know the facts but rumor has it that this F/A was hired and flew the line and always got the cap't to fly the leg. Finally one capt made her fly it and she couldn't perform he wrote her up and was given additional sim time and was evaluated by a FEMALE check airman and FAILED!! Then she sued of course. Don't know the outcome. However, I do know many mechanics with plenty of experience flight time wise were told the internal hiring was over and they are bitter to say the least. One of my mechanic co-workers is now a capt in dtw as for the others? some are flying CRJ's for Airlink and the others are giving it up......Like I said affirmitive action has had it's place, let us now wipe the slate clean and hire according to qualifications and experience regardless of race and or gender....Just my opinion of course

[Saab-driver]

AND...........what about Continental, United, and Delta giving out 3 scholarships a year for a female, and only a female, for a type rating in one of the aircraft the company flies. The kicker is if they do well in the ride they will be hired. How do I know........Well, go to the women confrence of aviation in Reno, and you will see 10 finalists for the Continental type rating scholarship. What would happen if those airlines only had scholarships for males.

Pilot for equal rights. P.S. and dont try to argue with me about the past. I know what happened in the past, and that was unthinkable. We needed change back then, but this is now.

[dbrownie]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Saab-driver:
[B]AND...........what about Continental, United, and Delta giving out 3 scholarships a year for a female, and only a female, for a type rating in one of the aircraft the company flies. The kicker is if they do well in the ride they will be hired.

NWA did the same thing!!! Last year in MEM.

[Siakapu]

Talked to a Boeing Rep some time back, and he told me that they don't build airplanes for rocket-scientists, but do take into account the intelligence of the least common denominator in the world.

And that...folks doesn't include women pilots who have always done it twice as hard as the average guy.