Check out the Bickering at UNITED

[sexat41000feet]

What has happened over at UNITED..??? MY god you must see it for yourself go to there new web site at www.fairunion.org (http://www.fairunion.com) I guess the word is some few are trying to decertify there UNION, sounds like union busters to me. Go to the forum page and file thru it's scary how they all work together but yet bash each other in the back, sounds like back stabbing to me...

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PLAY HARD & AND TRAVEL LOT'S...

[This message has been edited by sexat41000feet (edited December 05, 2000).]

[Jim]

The Fair website is not the United or AFA web site. They are a group of disgruntled and self-centered flight attendants, unhappy with the last Contract. Fair is an organization trying to decertify AFA and doesn't appear to have any plan for the future if they were successful in the decertification process.

[Erin]

I don't work for United myself, but I have friends over there and I only hear positive sounds about AFA. As an outsider I advise to stick to one union, especially because you've got a good one!

Erin

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If we are what we eat, then some pilots should eat more chicken

[laura@ual]

Dear Sex at 41000,
You should pull up your pants and go back to elementary school spelling class. You make all of us look bad.
The "FAIR" farce is just that and is ignored by most of us with more than a high school education.
What you did get right is us working together. Most of us do. But like any other company/organization we have some unhappy people.
Next time get the real truth.

[This message has been edited by laura@ual (edited November 02, 2000).]

[StandBy]

I work for KLM and am member of the (only) union VNC. Some years ago another union tried to "steal" members . In my opinion, one union is better then 2 or more. I also don't like all the decisions of my union, but I think it's better then more unions, because I think the company would really like this!

[Violette]

Hi there! I am a UAL FA and I posted this message in response to ANOTHER message on this board. Then, I saw this topic and decided to post the same message here too. we aren't nuts over there and SOME of us want to see things back to normal. We just don't know how to make it happen. There is SO much I could comment on but I'll leave it at this for now and if you want to visit the FAIR website or the AFA website, feel free. There is a message board at the FAIR website but AFA took its message board down and there is more explanation on this in my posting. Here goes... (Oh, I will add the address to the FAIR site at the end. I think you may already know AFA is www.afanet.org. (http://www.afanet.org)
********************************************
Hiya. I am a UAL FA. (Oh...my job is so much fun right now.) I am not sure just how many FAIR supporters there are as of yet but I do know that many UAL FAs have been upset with the AFA for quite some time. The biggest issue to set us off in recent years (I feel) was the 10 year contract we voted on. (They recommended it and SO many people were against it. it BARELY passed and may not have if it wasn't shoved down our throats but I won't go into that now.) There are also other issues. Too many to list right now but they are discussed on the FAIR board. (message board) they *were* also being talked about at the AFA message board but AFA took it down (the boards.) because they claimed to be overwhelmed by participation and said they were having tech. problems. Frankly, there were negative postings there (which afa was deleting. What ever happened to free speech? Oh, and be SURE that they were glad to leave anti-FAIR messages posted.) and some FAs believe they (AFA) are afraid. We expect NEW message boards at AFA for UAL but unfortunately, you won't be able to join because it will be for UAL only. That was/is AFA's idea. Some FAs feel that the recent activity from AFA at UAL (chaos, etc) is only because the FAIR group is trying to organize. They feel (some FAs) that AFA would not be so vocal right now if that hadn't happened. I don't know the truth. Is the whole thing frightening?? yes. What is the "final answer"? Who knows. We just want to be treated fairly. AFA has spent SO much member $$$ to recruit Delta FAs and they still haven't signned on. It is a waste of money. UAL FAs want our union to fix what's wrong at "home" first. is that too much to ask? Now, the reason I decided to post here. It is MY understanding that if enough signature cards are sent in (to make a vote possible on who may be the union of UAL's future. By the way, it needs to be at least 13,000)then, 50% +1 FAs have to vote on the issue. It doesn't have to be 50%+1 FOR AFA or FOR FAIR. Just 50%+1 must vote. Period. So, again that would be about 13,000 FAs. Is this the same thing that was said above? It's late and my brain doesn't want to work. Anyway, if you want to see all the bickering, go to the FAIR message boards. People will respond to you if you have questions. : ) PEACE, Violette. http://members.sitegadgets.com/fairunion/board.html
hope that worked. If not, I'll repost a link for you.



[This message has been edited by Violette (edited November 08, 2000).]

[Violette]

PS-
*************************
By the way, I am not a fair supporter, per say. I am only collecting as much info as I can. I have not yet made a decision about what is our best answer for the future. I visit LOTS of sites and try to get answers to questions. I use AFA and also the FAIR message boards. I like the FAIR message boards because they are interactice and sometimes, other FAs have answers. My post included things I have read from both sites...AFA and FAIR. see ya.
***********************************
*I am adding this on Nov 09.*
I need to add that the above comment does not mean that I will not support FAIR if I feel they can do what they promise to do after I am able to gather more information. I am a FA who is feeling afraid (because of things I have heard/read) that the AFA may tell me more what I *want* to hear than what is true. I am afraid 1st and foremost for my job and I think it is important to stick together right now so that we can get what we want at our airline. I feel that a union who is working only for us could be a good thing. I only mean to say that I am still looking for answers and I hope to end up less confused about all this. : )

[This message has been edited by Violette (edited November 08, 2000).]

[This message has been edited by Violette (edited November 10, 2000).]

[SOBRECARGO]

i am a fa now but i was mgmt at one time . most large corps love when their employees divide. they see it as a sign of weakness. you may not like each other, you may have different points of views. but remember you all got there for the same reasons. you want to fly and get paid fot it., so which ever way you go (afa or fair ) do it together. stick together AND remember is them(mgmt) against you (fas)-"VAYAN CON DIOS"

[Captain_Gossip]

Well, you made your point Violette. Let me just introduce myself first: Captain Gossip, webmaster of CrewStart.com including the "CrewRumors" bulletin board. The reason there is no bulletin board on the AFA website, is that there
were
technical problems. In the very near future however, CrewRumors will host the forums for AFA. They choose a private forum, which is in my opinion a very good way to restrict viewing for members only. ( and not the press e.g.) Just for your information: I removed your post from the other topic, because this is where it belongs.
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I hate to wake up and find my co-pilot asleep.

— Michael Treacy



[This message has been edited by Captain Gossip (edited November 08, 2000).]

[Violette]

Hi Capt. G. Yep...I also thought this topic was a good place for my message. I didn't see it first so I re-posted here. I wasn't trying to cram the boards w/ it. I hope it didn't seem that way. I only wanted to post because some crew members seemed to be wondering about the FAIR/AFA thing. There is a lot of bickering going on. I do know that the old AFA message boards had become quite crowded and I hope the new forum will be up soon. Lots of FAs at United are looking for answers and guidence. The part about the messages at the old AFA site being deleted...well, let me just say that "I" never had a message deleted but several others were complaining about it. I never posted any messages there that were negative or unprofessional. I figured I had better clear that up before it becomes an issue. I guess any messages that may have been removed were removed for a reason that webmaster deemed important. That is unclear to me and others since it has not been discussed since the time the message board was pulled. Thanks for your reply. : )

[airbiscuits]

Your recent posting intrigued me. I personally support the actions of FAIR, as it was instrumental in getting AFA off their asses after 3 years of inactivity with regard to United FA's interests. Incidentally, for the record, my education far exceeds that of high school. Additionally, I am a former CEO of a financial services corporation. I mention that, not to impress you, but rather to inform you that FAIR supporters are not simply uneducated drones, such as yourself. Sorry to burst your self imposed ego bubble. Anytime you care to exchange witts, please don't hesitate to drop me a note. I'd be more than happy to educate you.

[airbiscuits]

My original posting was intended as a rebuff to Laura@ual. For some reason, it was not posted as a reply.

[galleyman]

Hello All,I am a F/A at United and some things do appear to be in need of repair.Our stock price is in the gutter and we have just experienced the worst summer in aviation history as far as delays and cancellations go.During the worst part of the summer AFA send out a message to "carry travelers checks,credit cards and $$$ in case UA can not get you a layover hotel",we were told to take charge of "your situation".This is an example of our lack of leaderships thinking.If I were an AFA/MEC official,I would have demanded United add staff to the hotel desk.Pretty much a no brainer. Just a typical day at United.
On FAIR...read the web site (JIM/afa webmaster).FAIR wants to vote on WHO will represent United Flight Attendants.They are trying to replace an ineffective union and give working F/As a choice.Union Busting means no union,this is not the objective of FAIR.
AFA Discussion Board. It has been said it is down for technical reasons and backed up by the moderator on this site.Who will be paid with our union dues to maintain the AFA website.HELLO !!!! This is the year 2000.Any union that collects 12 million a year from it's membership has no excuse whatsoever to hide behing "technical difficulties" when in fact it may have been "editorial realities" that shut the board down.
Will you edit this ??
Galleyman

[Captain_Gossip]

Galleyman,

the previous board from afa was from sitegadgets, which is not really intended for high volume traffic. (this board is...).
We are glad to host the future board for afa and for the record, afa does not pay us anything.

best regards

Captain Gossip

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I hate to wake up and find my co-pilot asleep.

— Michael Treacy

[Violette]

Hi. Just wondering if there is any word on when the UALAFA board at this site may be up and running. I read somewhere (actually at the AFA website) that they were waiting until after the live webcast that was held a couple of weeks ago. Have they let you in on any type of time frame? It seems that it wouldn't take quite so long to get it going (and I am not blaming the webmaster here...please understand that.) I am just wondering if the whole thing has been put on the back burner for some reason. Any info would be great. Thanx. : )

[This message has been edited by Violette (edited November 16, 2000).]

[Captain_Gossip]

Violette,

sorry for my late reply, have been out flying for some days..

As you have maybe read there will be no AFA forum on CrewRumors. Read my topic
by clicking here (http://www.crewstart.com/ubb/Forum5/HTML/000060.html)

I hope for all AFA members you will have a nice bulletin board. I would have loved to have you all here on CrewRumors...


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I hate to wake up and find my co-pilot asleep.

— Michael Treacy

[Violette]

Thanx for getting back to me. I responded at the new topic you started so I'll just say "hi" for now and you'll see my other reply soon enough, Keep up the good work and happy flying. : )

[TexasChica]

I feel for all of you over there at UAL.

[laura@ual]

I'm sitting on a ual f/a jumpseat 3 days a week and do not see or hear any of the *bickering* that sexat41000 is talking about! Also, why is someone from another airline so interested in the trivialities at United? I've worked for another airline, I have friends at Delta, TWA and AA and there are f/as unhappy with their unions there, too! The fact that some f/as are complaining about their unions is not news worthy.
By the way,just who *do* you fly for sexat41000? And for how long have you been a f/a?

[This message has been edited by laura@ual (edited November 24, 2000).]

[airbiscuits]

I've noticed that you've yet to respond to a previous challenge port forth by an earlier posting (my post). We can only assume that you are not as intelligent as you would have us believe. In the future, perhaps you should educate yourself prior to bashing others in this forum. FAIR supporters are not uneducated drones, such as yourself. The challenge stands.

[sexat41000feet]

My dear laura, wake-up and smell the coffee. The bickering is going on under your feet over your head and all around you just ask around, I fly for an Intl carrier outside of the U.S.A , and have been for 15 years. I surf the web and noticed the web site for FAIR and read many comments, I also have freinds in many other carriers but have yet to hear of any type of decertification going on there, by the way you don't even insult me by throwing accusations that my education level is High School at best, I think you have some private issues that need to be taken care of.

By the way,just who *do* you fly for sexat41000? And for how long have you been a f/a?

[This message has been edited by laura@ual (edited November 24, 2000).][/B][/QUOTE]



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PLAY HARD & TRAVEL LOT'S...

[laura@ual]

By the way,just who *do* you fly for sexat41000? And for how long have you been a f/a?

You fly for an unnamed "international" carrier and you presume to tell me what's going on at the airline I work for? And on the jumpseat next to mine? Well in the months that FAIR has been around I've heard ONE f/a bring it up. I stand by my statement that FAIR remains a non issue for most f/a's at United.

[laura@ual]

Anytime you care to exchange witts, please don't hesitate to drop me a note. I'd be more than happy to educate you.[/B][/QUOTE]


Dear Air Biscuits,
Perhaps you mean the word 'wit' a noun meaning the association of apparantly unrelated ideas in an unexpected, clever way. Or perhaps what you *really* meant to say was 'anytime you would care to exchange "witticisms" please dont hesitate to drop me a note'. Well Biscuits, the note has been dropped.
You may also read my December 5th response to sexat41000. And just so you know for future reference, I respond at my leisure.

[laura@ual]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by sexat41000feet:
[B]The bickering is going on under your feet over your head and all around you just ask around,

I don't need to 'ask around'! I'm flying on United jets three times a week! It's just simply *not* there! As I said before the fact that there are some disgruntled f/a's out of the 25,000 of us just isn't unusual.

[laura@ual]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Arial, Verdana ">quote:<HR>Originally posted by sexat41000feet:
I also have freinds in many other carriers but have yet to hear of any type of decertification going on there,

TWA f/a's voted out IFFA (a now defunct 'independant' f/a union) in favor of the IAM in 1999.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

[laura@ual]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by airbiscuits:
[B]I've noticed that you've yet to respond to a previous challenge port forth by an earlier posting (my post). In the future, perhaps you should educate yourself prior to bashing others in this forum.

Please refer to my December 5th posting.

[airbiscuits]

well, you've shown that you're able to read, verbatim, out of the dictionary. However, you are as you appear.....lame. Perhaps you should revert back to your previous life, as a burger flipper. Were your parents related?

[airbiscuits]

Isn't it extremely apparent that Laura@ual is the one lacking in education? She seems totally oblivious to what is actually going on with the fa's at UA. She must be one of the mindless puppets being controlled by AFA's "do nothing" unionists.

[airbiscuits]

You are truely pathetic. How does it feel to be nothing more than a puppet of the AFA? Perhaps you should learn to think for YOURSELF. Then again, that would require more than a high school education. It's never too late to pursue formal schooling. They even have "special" schools for individuals with sub-human IQ''s, such as yourself. You've shown that you can read verbatim from a dictionary. Perhaps your next attempt should be from a textbook.

[High_Altitude]

I think it's time to close this topic....

Hope one time you will be "United" again

High Altitude
moderator