757 variable staffing [Archive] - AirlineCrew.net - Bulletin Board for Airline Crew

CO757

October 20, 2001, 05:40 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by devilinabluedress:
Could someone please explain to me why we just cut a flight attendant position from all international 757 flights? That plane was bad enough with 5. Now only 4?!?! Forget about sitting down if you have the misfortune of being the door greeter. After eyeshades, hot towels, 5 bev carts, 2 meal services, not to mention duty free, well, they might as well show the inflight movie on your ass because you NEVER leave the aisle. And don't forget about "cookies" on the return. I know that you get the "load" if the pbt is over 99, but in my opinion, 98 pax is still pretty damn full for all that service on a 5 hour flight (SNN). And if you think this doesn't have an effect on you because you're domestic, guess again. I'll be putting in a transfer since with 8 years I'll still be on reserve.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I understand and agree with your frustration. My equally disturbing observation is that we never seem to variable staff language speakers!?!?!?

images/icons/mad.gif images/icons/mad.gif images/icons/mad.gif images/icons/mad.gif

devilinabluedress

October 20, 2001, 08:42 AM

Trust me. You DON'T want to get me started on the speaker issue...

skyguyy

October 21, 2001, 01:05 PM

YEAH...why don't they variable staff SPEAKERS? We should bring that up!!

FLYMY767

October 21, 2001, 11:37 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by skyguyy:
YEAH...why don't they variable staff SPEAKERS? We should bring that up!!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Hey sky they have cut speaker positions on all A/C 1 on the 757, 2 767 and 3 on the 777 depending on routes. They will add EWR and NTA positions to some routes.

BUTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT !!! They are cutting F/A positions on all A/C if you have not noticed.
images/icons/mad.gif images/icons/mad.gif

Now CAL is almost as understaffed as AMR, DAL and UAL. 767-200/400 and the 777 still have more F/A's than those other airlines. No offense if you work for the other airlines but to be honest because of our higher level of service we have been used to flying 757 with 6, 767-200 with 8, 767-400 with 11 and 777 with 14/15 f/a's. Some airlines fly 757 with 4, 767-200's with 5 and that is just impossible at CAL.

I hope they do not expect us to do the same service. If they staff us that way from now.
Then I propose that all CAL F/A give the same service level as AMR, DAL and UAL.

We all know what that means!!!!!!!! No more Supreme Economy Service. Magazine distributions, Hot towels, Amenity kits, Pre - Meal Peanuts/Pretzels, 5 Bar carts, Choice of Hot meals, Water/juice Service,Cheese and crackers, Deluxe Lunch/breakfast for 2nd service etc etc. And we know that thats on a 5 hr flight.

You all complain about the 757-200 wait till you get a 737-900 with 4 F/A's

or that extra long 757-300 with 6 F/A's images/icons/mad.gif images/icons/mad.gif

The Lord knows that if it comes down to that
I will only fly 737-700 International for the rest of my career. Mexico and Costa Rica will get boring but at least I wont feel like I am on a slave ship.

images/icons/mad.gif images/icons/mad.gif images/icons/mad.gif

GalleyHag

October 22, 2001, 09:41 AM

Short crew is nothing new at NWA. We were told months ago that certain A/C would only have minimum crews, namely the 727 and the A320-19s.

It can be a good thing though. We get short crew pay on almost every leg now.

FLYMY767

October 22, 2001, 10:12 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by GalleyHag:
Short crew is nothing new at NWA. We were told months ago that certain A/C would only have minimum crews, namely the 727 and the A320-19s.

It can be a good thing though. We get short crew pay on almost every leg now.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>CAL does not operate the 72 and the 737-500 and the 737-700 are about the same size as the A-319. Domestic they are all minimum crew without extra crew pay. Prior to the November bid. If a 757 left for San Juan for example with less than 6 F/A's we would get short crew pay. Or the same would apply for a 737-500/700 left for Mexico City with less than 4 F/A's. But domestically the 757 flew with 5, all 73 except the 800 and 900 with 3 (4,5 respectively)10 for the 767-400 (Configured smaller than your DC10) 7 for the 767-200 (Configured smaller than your
757) and 3 for the MD-80.

devilinabluedress

October 22, 2001, 12:29 PM

My original point was not to compare how much worse you guys have it domestically or at other airlines. I guess I was trying to make sense of cutting f/a positions and adding to the reserve pool. Basically I'm getting paid to sit on my ass this month due to the complete flood of reserves, who are by the way FIGHTING to pick up trips or even airport alert. How much sense does it make to pay me a guarantee for hanging out in the ironbound while my co-workers are busting their ass in the air? This company has a unique way of making everybody miserable. I honestly can't believe it's due to cost cutting. They could save more money by deleting that dumb cookie/orange juice service. Honestly, just put the cheese and cracker BACK on the tray where it began. I was talking to the caterer in LGW and he told me that every time they have to add to the specs (orange juice and water) which as we all know is every flight, they charge the company $90 for the special trip to the supply warehouse. He told me they charge it even if they have the foresight to bring it with them. Nice... Before I saw the bid packet, I had a teeny bit of hope of regaining my line. Now I guess I'll just prep my butt for another month of couch-sitting and people watching in the crew room.

CO757

October 23, 2001, 12:02 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by FLYMY767:
Hey sky they have cut speaker positions on all A/C 1 on the 757, 2 767 and 3 on the 777 depending on routes. They will add EWR and NTA positions to some routes.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I believe the positions cut for speakers were not due to the company distributing the variable staffing equibly, rather it was due to so many speakers being furloughed. Notice on the routes where speakers are slightly more senior, they where not cut by much (comparing to NTA).

I heard someone talked to a manager in mecca, but of course that was similar to talking to a brick wall.

The company should swap one NLS position for NTA, putting the NLS position into the variable staff pool.

This is beginning to remind me of "Frank" style management. images/icons/mad.gif images/icons/frown.gif images/icons/confused.gif

FLYMY767

October 23, 2001, 03:36 PM

Hi CO 757 !! images/icons/smile.gif

I have to agree with you 100%. You also made me laugh. lol

Frank style management scares me images/icons/mad.gif

I hope that things change soon. BTW I did not know until today that Bic disposables, tweezers, Nail cutters and Curling Irons lol where back in Vogue. I guess the FAA realized that we posed more of a threat with unshaved faces and thick big eyebrows than those items. images/icons/grin.gif

Jetwaiter

October 23, 2001, 03:48 PM

Hey Fellow Crew Members

I'm from Air Canada.

We operate a FULL 767-200, with 36 Business Class seats, and 162 Economy seats (198 in total), with only 5 crew members. Even for short flights (1 hour or less). And this is the standard, not "operational irregularities".

And our service, is quite extensive as well.

Talk about sweating.

p.s. We don't get Short Crew Pay. images/icons/frown.gif

[ 10-23-2001: Message edited by: Jetwaiter ]

FLYMY767

October 23, 2001, 05:46 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by Jetwaiter:
Hey Fellow Crew Members

I'm from Air Canada.

We operate a FULL 767-200, with 36 Business Class seats, and 162 Economy seats (198 in total), with only 5 crew members. Even for short flights (1 hour or less). And this is the standard, not "operational irregularities".

And our service, is quite extensive as well.

Talk about sweating.

p.s. We don't get Short Crew Pay. images/icons/frown.gif

[ 10-23-2001: Message edited by: Jetwaiter ]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Welcome Jetwaiter And thank you for the info

images/icons/smile.gif Our 767-200 are configured for 25 Business ( no double center seats) 2 - 1 - 2
configuration and 149 Main Cabin (174)for flts 8 hrs and under. 145 Main Cabin (170) for flts over 8 hrs. We use to go with 8 now its 7. So I understand how much work it must be for you. images/icons/shocked.gif

[ 10-23-2001: Message edited by: FLYMY767 ]

GalleyHag

October 23, 2001, 11:11 PM

I've worked DC-10s to Europe from DTW with 6 crew. 2 in front and four in back. It can be done.

coflyguy

October 24, 2001, 10:11 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by CO757:
I understand and agree with your frustration. My equally disturbing observation is that we never seem to variable staff language speakers!?!?!?

images/icons/mad.gif images/icons/mad.gif images/icons/mad.gif images/icons/mad.gif<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Hey co757, sorry to burst your bubble, but if you look closely at the bid package, you'll notice that not only did they variable sttafed one of the speaker positions
but they also reduced the sttafing on the speaker positions on the '75 from 3 to 2.
So do me a favor, stop whining because you're not the only one that has it bad right now!!!

coflyguy

October 24, 2001, 10:12 PM

coflyguy

October 24, 2001, 10:18 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by devilinabluedress:
Trust me. You DON'T want to get me started on the speaker issue...<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
No, devil, I DO want to start you on the speaker issue. let's see what's troubling you!!!

CO757

October 24, 2001, 11:19 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by coflyguy:
Hey co757, sorry to burst your bubble, but if you look closely at the bid package, you'll notice that not only did they variable sttafed one of the speaker positions
but they also reduced the sttafing on the speaker positions on the '75 from 3 to 2.
So do me a favor, stop whining because you're not the only one that has it bad right now!!!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'm looking at the bid packet; where exactly does it state that they are variable staffing the speaker position??? Speaker positions have been reduced due to furloughs not due to variable staffing.

I truly welcome productive discussions on this and other issues, but I find your "whinning" comment to be out of line.

[ 10-25-2001: Message edited by: CO757 ]

FLYMY767

October 25, 2001, 01:08 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by CO757:
I'm looking at the bid packet; where exactly does it state that they are variable staffing the speaker position??? Speaker positions have been reduced due to furloughs not due to variable staffing.

I truly welcome productive discussions on this and other issues, but I find your "whinning" comment to be out of line.

[ 10-25-2001: Message edited by: CO757 ]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hi Co757

I took a look at the Nov awards in the Spanish base for example. If they had not cut out the speaker positions the base would have over 100 reserves to cover the Nov schedule. That is 50 more than needed. Since they went ahead and cut the position and gave it to EWR and NTA respectively the Spanish base now has almost 200 reserves available. Almost half the base
is on reserve and that does excludes the furloughed F/A's that are Spanish qualified.
It is the same scenario in the French , Portuguese and Italian base. I did not bother to look at the other language bases.
I am afraid it is all about staffing equibly and not because the bases are short speakers.

I retrack my earlier post. It is sad when you really take a look at it. I know that you will not agree with me but CAL carries a 70% plus ratio of Foreign Nationals over U.S. citizens. U.S. Citizens still sadly prefer the big 3 for international travel prior to 9/11. The Foreign Nationals prefer CAL because of its service. Speakers are a very important part of it. CAL would not be where it is today Internationally if we had not adopted Gordons philosphy on Speaking the same language as OUR INTERNATIONAL CUSTOMERS DO.

We have invested millions and I hope we continue to be the leader in customer service for non english travel(What are operations currently do worldwide). We are the first airline in U.S. to have an automated reservation/flight arrival information etc etc that is not in English. Their is a reason for that $$$$$$$$$$. One that we should not ignore. I am now trying to learn Hebrew. It is not easy at all, but I am making an effort to change so that my job benefits me. This is my opinion and I do not suggest that it should reflect the same
for everyone.

[ 10-25-2001: Message edited by: FLYMY767 ]

devilinabluedress

October 25, 2001, 12:53 PM

First let me begin by saying that I do not for the most part have a problem with the speaker themselves. There are those too ignorant to keep their mouths shut every month when they complain about what bad lines they have received and those that talk in the alternate language right in front of you, which is rude. That's about it. Ok, about the 757 variable staffing...the only positions CAPABLE of being taken off are the speaker ones. Contractually, there must be at least 3 non-fls positions on the 757 (including the ISM). About the speaker base and reserve, well yes things are tough all over. NTA reserve went back to June 90 for November so, I really can't listen to how rotten it is that half the NLS base is sitting. As far as the whole 70% foreign nationals theory, well you must be a Spanish speaker because those to South America are the only flights where most of the cabin does not understand English. And by the way, the tickets are purchased because they are CHEAP and non-stop from the New York area, not due to the number of speakers aboard. If you don't believe me, look up and compare the fares. The advertising department has also done an excellent job in some of these cities. My problem with the speaker issue stems from the double standard that is apparent when the same person can both trash a hotel room and steal from duty free without any repercussion. I would have been on written warning and kicked out of NTA. This person was told "not to bid that city." I'm tired of people getting hired that don't speak English. I'm tired of the panacea for any problem I might have is "learn a language." I'm tired of speakers taking personally what are fundamentally OPERATIONAL issues. Learning Hebrew is a way of dealing with the problems at hand yes. That, however, is not a solution for them. Let me add that unless you are satisfied flying to the same destination(s) month after month or are planning to learn all 8 languages, this has consequences for you too.

FLYMY767

October 25, 2001, 05:39 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by devilinabluedress:
First let me begin by saying that I do not for the most part have a problem with the speaker themselves. There are those too ignorant to keep their mouths shut every month when they complain about what bad lines they have received and those that talk in the alternate language right in front of you, which is rude. That's about it. Ok, about the 757 variable staffing...the only positions CAPABLE of being taken off are the speaker ones. Contractually, there must be at least 3 non-fls positions on the 757 (including the ISM). About the speaker base and reserve, well yes things are tough all over. NTA reserve went back to June 90 for November so, I really can't listen to how rotten it is that half the NLS base is sitting. As far as the whole 70% foreign nationals theory, well you must be a Spanish speaker because those to South America are the only flights where most of the cabin does not understand English. And by the way, the tickets are purchased because they are CHEAP and non-stop from the New York area, not due to the number of speakers aboard. If you don't believe me, look up and compare the fares. The advertising department has also done an excellent job in some of these cities. My problem with the speaker issue stems from the double standard that is apparent when the same person can both trash a hotel room and steal from duty free without any repercussion. I would have been on written warning and kicked out of NTA. This person was told "not to bid that city." I'm tired of people getting hired that don't speak English. I'm tired of the panacea for any problem I might have is "learn a language." I'm tired of speakers taking personally what are fundamentally OPERATIONAL issues. Learning Hebrew is a way of dealing with the problems at hand yes. That, however, is not a solution for them. Let me add that unless you are satisfied flying to the same destination(s) month after month or are planning to learn all 8 languages, this has consequences for you too.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Look young Lady

images/icons/grin.gif
I really doubt that you are one. A Lady that is. The only ignorant person here is you. For sixteen years I have been an International F/A and it still amazes me how rude some people are. CAL should have never hired a young teenie boppers like you. You in general know your duties very well but have a terrible attitude toward your Co-workers and Company.

Its time to Pay your dues "B***h"!!!!
Maybe if I get down to your level you will understand !!!

I am not the one complaining with vulgar language on a public chat board about sitting reserve, which would put you in the 10 year and under bracket for a CAL NTA F/A.

Judging by your posts and indirect remarks. Its not all about you my dear. Whats a matter, is your boyfriend cheating on you again? Still dont know who gave you that Yeast Infection? Miss Devil in a Blue Dress. May God help you !!!! It takes all kinds doesnt it.

Fly CAL to Europe and count the American Citizens on board!!!! Even to the U.K we carry more English than American with Ireland as the ONLY exception. I was not always NLS my darling DEVIL!! images/icons/tongue.gif images/icons/grin.gif

About fares its called competition; Delta for example started dumping fares to and from Latin America after 9/11 because their A/C are not getting filled up with customers like ours.

JFK ( Thats a Airport in New York, Duh...)to MEX for $200.00 round trip for example. Do you just expect CAL to sit their with our arms crossed!! Or do you possible think we need to match the fare?

If you have a Speaker Issue I suggest you call Wendy Femia. You do know who she is?
Yeah right. How could you. My Darling Devil you sound very tired according to your posts.
Remember you are only in your early twenties.
Maybe thats the real problem.

BTW yes I am of Latin American decent. Judging by your Anti-South American Atitude, I want you to know that I do not judge anyone by the color of their skin, race, language or sexual orientation.

Get a Life !!!

FLYMY767

October 25, 2001, 06:01 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by CO757:
Positions given to NTA...what drugs are you guys on? How many reserves does NTA have this month vs. next?

You are correct, I don't agree with your statement regarding the need for speakers. I do believe we need a speaker on board to interpret. We are an American carrier, we do not need to have the number of speakers we have. What will these customers do when they are in the USA and no speaker is available?

Bottomline.....I think we need the speaker, but not a half dozen or even more than 2 (on a 777 or 764)<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hello Co757

This is an american carrier and I am also an american just like you. I am also very much like you in many ways.

Bottom Line I guess what you want is for CAL to be just like American , United, Delta and Nortwest when it comes to speakers.

That would give you many more lines. That would also make you very happy.

Why not, the routes have already been developed and will remain constant for some years.

When the constitution changes and the official language of the U.S.A. is Native Indian, I will then keep my mouth shut. I live in the greatest city in the world; NEW YORK CITY and it became what it is today
because of very hard working immigrants.

I could have never thought that you would also pre-judge with your statement.

" WE ARE AN AMERICAN CARRIER"

This airline is a business and you and I sell a service. Marketing is their for all races, languages and colores. It only cares about one thing "MONEY".

As "America's Airline to the World" we need to sell our product in the language the customer will understand.

NOW IS A TIME FOR UNITY

I AM DEEPLY SADDEN BY YOUR REMARKS CO757

devilinabluedress

October 25, 2001, 06:34 PM

Let me remind you that I was ASKED what my problem was in regards to the speaker issue. May I also add that the only questionable word I have used in any of my posts has been "ass." You might want to consult your dictionary on the meaning of vulgar, as the *** in "B***h" isn't really fooling anyone and YOU are busy discussing yeast infections in an airline chat room. How very hypocritical for you to insinuate that I am rude...

I would really be interested in finding out where you got the idea that I was making any racial remarks. Anti-South American attitude? Please feel free to quote me. I also said that I don't have a problem with the speakers themselves, so where is that attitude problem toward my co-workers?

By the way, if you reread my comment, you will see that I said "most of the cabin does not understand English," which has nothing to do with the amount of American citizens. This is not a derogatory comment, simply a statement of fact.

It IS about competition in regards to the fares, not about number of speakers on board. Thank you for reiterating my point exactly.

As far as the rest of your comments are concerned, obviously you feel the need to take out your aggressions somewhere. If you think that I am the only person who has an issue with the speaker complement, then you must not ever talk with your fellow crew members. And if you think my viewpoint has anything to do with my age or seniority, then I suggest you speak to the folks that fly Narita.

Getting down to my level involves a little something called couth. Good Luck.

devilinabluedress

October 25, 2001, 07:20 PM

Oh and flymy767,

I love your little condescending remark about JFK. Especially coming from someone who doesn't know the difference between "thats" and "that's", "its" and "it's"; that there are no such words as equibly or retrack (equitably and retract); that makes statements like, "Or do you possible think...". And for the record, Northwest is spelled with an "h." I'll get a life if you get an education.

While I'm at it, you don't get a yeast infection from being sexually promiscuous (I can only assume that's what you meant to imply) and the Constitution makes no reference to the official language of the United States.

[ 10-25-2001: Message edited by: devilinabluedress ]

FLYMY767

October 25, 2001, 08:32 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by devilinabluedress:
Oh and flymy767,

I love your little condescending remark about JFK. Especially coming from someone who doesn't know the difference between "thats" and "that's", "its" and "it's"; that there are no such words as equibly or retrack (equitably and retract); that makes statements like, "Or do you possible think...". And for the record, Northwest is spelled with an "h." I'll get a life if you get an education.

While I'm at it, you don't get a yeast infection from being sexually promiscuous (I can only assume that's what you meant to imply) and the Constitution makes no reference to the official language of the United States.

[ 10-25-2001: Message edited by: devilinabluedress ]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

My Darling Devil.

I will not bother to deal with you nor read anything you post. You have now joined the "ignore club"
You are looking for attention and I will not give it to you. I pray to God that someday you may be worthy of being called a Lady.
You are of course superior lol...

Ciao

coflyguy

October 25, 2001, 11:11 PM

You guys are just the type of people that I love to fly with ,that when time to do Docs comes up, always say,"can you please help that lady?", but yet you say that speakers are not necessary onboard.
For your information, you work in an international market, with people from all over the world, from different creeds and religions, and those of you that can't look as a person just as a person, instead of as a Spanish or a Italian or a Portuguese, shouldn't be in this business to begin with.
Second, just FYI, you can't get a job as a Flight Attendant in Europe or for that matter in most countries in the world if you don't speak at least 2 languages. And to finalize, don't look at the "speakers" as speakers, you should look at them as someone who can do your job but you can't do theirs.

CO757

October 25, 2001, 11:48 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by FLYMY767:
Hi Co757

I took a look at the Nov awards in the Spanish base for example. If they had not cut out the speaker positions the base would have over 100 reserves to cover the Nov schedule. That is 50 more than needed. Since they went ahead and cut the position and gave it to EWR and NTA respectively the Spanish base now has almost 200 reserves available. Almost half the base
is on reserve and that does excludes the furloughed F/A's that are Spanish qualified.
It is the same scenario in the French , Portuguese and Italian base. I did not bother to look at the other language bases.
I am afraid it is all about staffing equibly and not because the bases are short speakers.

I retrack my earlier post. It is sad when you really take a look at it. I know that you will not agree with me but CAL carries a 70% plus ratio of Foreign Nationals over U.S. citizens. U.S. Citizens still sadly prefer the big 3 for international travel prior to 9/11. The Foreign Nationals prefer CAL because of its service. Speakers are a very important part of it. CAL would not be where it is today Internationally if we had not adopted Gordons philosphy on Speaking the same language as OUR INTERNATIONAL CUSTOMERS DO.

We have invested millions and I hope we continue to be the leader in customer service for non english travel(What are operations currently do worldwide). We are the first airline in U.S. to have an automated reservation/flight arrival information etc etc that is not in English. Their is a reason for that $$$$$$$$$$. One that we should not ignore. I am now trying to learn Hebrew. It is not easy at all, but I am making an effort to change so that my job benefits me. This is my opinion and I do not suggest that it should reflect the same
for everyone.

[ 10-25-2001: Message edited by: FLYMY767 ]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Positions given to NTA...what drugs are you guys on? How many reserves does NTA have this month vs. next?

You are correct, I don't agree with your statement regarding the need for speakers. I do believe we need a speaker on board to interpret. We are an American carrier, we do not need to have the number of speakers we have. What will these customers do when they are in the USA and no speaker is available?

Bottomline.....I think we need the speaker, but not a half dozen or even more than 2 (on a 777 or 764)

GalleyHag

October 26, 2001, 01:27 AM

There are some misunderstandings here between you guys. Anyway, NWA does not have speaker positions. We have interpreters that are not FAs. They do not do FA duties, and dress differently from us.

Our interpreters do announcements, pass out newspapers in Business, help with duty free in business, and take orders in business. They sit in assigned passenger coach seats for take-off and landing, and outfits are different.

We have Japanese interpreters on all flights in and out of Japan from the States. We have (new!) Chinese interpreters on flights to and from Beijing and Shanghai. We have German and French interpreters to Frankfurt and Paris, respectively. We have Hindi interpreters to BOM and DEL. That's it. AMS, FCO, MXP, MEX, CUN, YVL, and LGW do not have interpreters.

I have backgrounds in Spanish, French, German, Russian, Hebrew, Italian, and Arabic and I have had to use them all on flights to and from AMS. Especially when we pass out those damn customs forms.
With our new contract, FAs will be able to get $1.00 more per hour if they pass a language test and happen to work to a city that is mostly the language they speak. So if I pass for example, Spanish, I will only get paid that extra buck an hour if I happen to fly to MEX, CUN, etc.. Or French for YVL and CDG only. German for FRA only. But I will get NOTHING if I am a German speaker and fly to AMS.

Fly_Right

October 26, 2001, 05:23 AM

Ok, let's all take a deep breath. I don't want to lock you folk's out of this discussion, but I will if the use of inappropriate language continues(i.e. a** or b***h, etc.).

While everyone is free to express their opinion, it is not "ok" to be rude. images/icons/wink.gif

[ 10-26-2001: Message edited by: Fly Right ]

CO757

October 26, 2001, 09:42 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by FLYMY767:
[qb]Hello Co757

[quote][qb]This is an american carrier and I am also an american just like you. I am also very much like you in many ways.

Bottom Line I guess what you want is for CAL to be just like American , United, Delta and Nortwest when it comes to speakers.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yes, that is exactly what I would like. Do realize, we used to have it that way?

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>That would give you many more lines. That would also make you very happy.

Why not, the routes have already been developed and will remain constant for some years.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Would you say dropping Rio, Dusseldorf, the 2nd Paris Flight, CLE-LGW and cutting daily flights to 4,5 & 6 times a week; to be "constant"? I don't. More lines should make everyone happy, but it is more F/A positions that would please me.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>When the constitution changes and the official language of the U.S.A. is Native Indian, I will then keep my mouth shut. I live in the greatest city in the world; NEW YORK CITY and it became what it is today
because of very hard working immigrants.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'm honestly confused...what does this statement have to do with our discussion? I live in Denver and I think it is the greatest city in the world. Much of Denver's sucess is due to the many diverse backgrounds of its citizens.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>I could have never thought that you would also pre-judge with your statement.

" WE ARE AN AMERICAN CARRIER"

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

How is this "pre-judging"? It is a fact, we are an American carrier (notice the American Flag on the aircraft).

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>This airline is a business and you and I sell a service. Marketing is their for all races, languages and colores. It only cares about one thing "MONEY".<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Salespeople, sell. We provide the service. Marketing's job is to convey the message that we are an airline worth the customers money.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>As "America's Airline to the World" we need to sell our product in the language the customer will understand.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

When and where did this slogan appear?

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>NOW IS A TIME FOR UNITY

I AM DEEPLY SADDEN BY YOUR REMARKS CO757<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Please don't take this personally, but your being "deeply sadden" by my remarks has no bearing on this conversation. Why would you think this to be the case? Just because we are fellow F/A's?

Why do you think this is a time for "Unity"? Due to the events of 9/11? This has nothing to due with that sad day. This issue has been brewing for sometime and is coming to a head.

Finally, I am curious as to why you failed to answer my question...Where in the bid packet or anywhere else do you see that language speakers are variable staffed?

[ 10-26-2001: Message edited by: CO757 ]

CO757

October 26, 2001, 09:52 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by coflyguy:
You guys are just the type of people that I love to fly with ,that when time to do Docs comes up, always say,"can you please help that lady?", but yet you say that speakers are not necessary onboard.
For your information, you work in an international market, with people from all over the world, from different creeds and religions, and those of you that can't look as a person just as a person, instead of as a Spanish or a Italian or a Portuguese, shouldn't be in this business to begin with.
Second, just FYI, you can't get a job as a Flight Attendant in Europe or for that matter in most countries in the world if you don't speak at least 2 languages. And to finalize, don't look at the "speakers" as speakers, you should look at them as someone who can do your job but you can't do theirs.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

This just wrong. I don't believe anyone said that we didn't need speakers, we just don't need them taking so many f/a positions.

I don't really care what the policies are for carriers in other countries, I care about what is the standard or expectation in this country.

You are right, I do request assistance from the language speakers and they are great about helping out. It isn't a personality thing....it is a position thing.

FLYMY767

October 26, 2001, 10:39 AM

FLYMY767

October 26, 2001, 10:52 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by coflyguy:
You guys are just the type of people that I love to fly with ,that when time to do Docs comes up, always say,"can you please help that lady?", but yet you say that speakers are not necessary onboard.
For your information, you work in an international market, with people from all over the world, from different creeds and religions, and those of you that can't look as a person just as a person, instead of as a Spanish or a Italian or a Portuguese, shouldn't be in this business to begin with.
Second, just FYI, you can't get a job as a Flight Attendant in Europe or for that matter in most countries in the world if you don't speak at least 2 languages. And to finalize, don't look at the "speakers" as speakers, you should look at them as someone who can do your job but you can't do theirs.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Hi Flyguy

These people forget that CAL is not the same airline prior to Gordon. When they had 1 or 2 speakers on board which by the way to use to get paid around $5.00 more per hr. SEA-NRT for example. Rio de Janiero, Second Paris etc etc all came from Gordons way of running this airline. All those new destinations worldwide. Young inexpensive labor and a quality product.

Bottom line is that they want to take away speaker postions. As a a speaker I will make sure that all speaker bases in Newark take part in a formal protest. As we speak work is being done to prevent Speakers from losing futher lines in December.

On a positive note CAL is doing just fine and we should expect extra flying for December.

devilinabluedress

October 26, 2001, 11:26 PM

That's right... Gordon has never made a mistake. Buying those 767-400's. That was a brilliant move considering they don't have the range to make it to most of the destinations they were intended to fly. And yes, I recall from the opening paragraph of "From Worst to First" that all of those new international destinations were the result of more fls on board.

Then again, what do I know? I'm just a "young teenie bopper" or would that be "inexpensive labor"?

As far as formal protests by the speakers in Newark, will there be picketing in front of the duty desk or upstairs at Wok N Roll?

"As we speak work is being done to prevent Speakers from losing further lines in December." Is there an NLS mafia that I just don't know about? Are they planning on "taking out" Randy Mullins?

skygoddess51

October 27, 2001, 12:48 PM

I am so sad about this bickering going on between NLS and NTA flight attendants. This very attitude is the reason I prefer to stay domestic.

We work for a better than average company and with some of the finest people in the industry. True, sometimes our jobs aren't perfect and work conditions may be a little tough, but having had a number of jobs outside the airline industry and on the ground with CAL, being a flight attendant is one of the easiest jobs in the world for people who are flexible and adjust well to a constantaly changing fast paced environment. Right now it is difficult for everyone due to the cutbacks so please hang tough and realize that we all must adjust to our new aviation environment. The events of 9/11 have in many ways taken some of the fun out of our job but I refuse to allow it to change my attitude. Hey, we still have a job and there is hope that things will turn around. Hang in there everyone and keep your chin up. images/icons/rolleyes.gif

coflyguy

October 28, 2001, 06:41 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by CO757:
This just wrong. I don't believe anyone said that we didn't need speakers, we just don't need them taking so many f/a positions.

I don't really care what the policies are for carriers in other countries, I care about what is the standard or expectation in this country.

You are right, I do request assistance from the language speakers and they are great about helping out. It isn't a personality thing....it is a position thing.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

CO757, I'm confused.
You said " no one ever said we don't need speakers, we just don't need so many taking F/A positions."
So, I guess that speakers are not F/A's???

images/icons/confused.gif

CALFLYBOY

November 1, 2001, 06:58 AM

Well Ladies and Gentlemen, I stumbled upon this sight after cancelling my planebusiness.com subscription. Let me give you all a little history on collective bargaining and the speakers at CAL. All of this has been simplified, but it will still be lengthy. Please bare with me. Pardon my grammar and spelling.

Back in the day, as a few of you remember we only staffed 1 or 2 speakers on our international flights. Then came Gordon and his merry bunch. Gordon and his management team felt that CAL could distinguish itself from the US airline competition by adding more multi-lingual FA's to the flights. A service improvement over other US carriers. So the company unilaterally started adding speakers to the flights. A grievance was immediately filed against the company. Sometime later the whole issue was taken to a neutral arbitrator to decide. The union argued seniority violations, past practice(the company never use to put more than two speakers on the plane), disparate treatment, and they also argued that the rest of the US airlines don't put so many speakers aboard their flights in FA work positions. The unions case was indeed solid. Then the company argued that CAL was in a precarious financial position and they needed the ability and leverage to set CAL apart from the rest, from a marketing standpoint, so it would attract more customers and hopefully help the airline to succeed. This arbitration occured not too long after Gordon made his infamous phone call to Boeing to help cover the payroll. The airline was still being "turned around" at this point. The arbitrator, who had a past of writing many favorable decisions for the unions in general, bought the company's argument. The sucker that he was. So now we have this arbitration decision that allows all the speaker postions.

Then came the '96 negotiations and contract. The union put the whole issue back on to the table. The company stood behind the arbitration decision to back its will to keep the speakers on the planes. The company also put it to the union in no uncertain terms that if the unions keeps pressing the issue at the negotiating table then they(the company) was going to walk away from the bargaining table.

At this point in time, the FA's only option to get the company to change its mind on the whole speaker issue was to conduct a "job action."

The FA's were not remotely unified at the time. The company was hiring new FA's by the hundreds, none of them had the prior knowledge of the issue, nor did they care. The domestic FA's did not understand the gravity of the issue because they did not fly international trips, so it did not directly affect them. The vast majority of FA's at the time were domestic based. So union issues, bargaining issues, international FA issues, were not at the forefront of anyone's mind except the small number of NTA/HTA FA's and the union.

So the '96 negotiations and contract came and went. The only thing that the union was able to secure in writing was a minimum amount of NON-speakers to staff the international flights. It wasn't great by any stretch of the imagination, but it was something. The union also was able to negotiate senior premium pay to be paid to the most senior FA's for every active speaker FA in NLS/HOS.

Then came the '00 negotiations and contract. Well the company still refused to back off of "Gordon's pet issue" knowing that our FA group was not going to strike over the speaker issue. Sure enough, only the NTA/HTA FA's gave a squat about the issue. The domestic FA's were not going to hold up a contract that had some decent money in it over the speaker issue. So here we are today.

The only way that the speaker issue is going to go away is the 1.) the company unilaterally takes off the speakers. 2.) WE, each and every FA decides to conduct some sort of "job action" over the issue. Job actions while a contract is in full force(before it becomes amendable) is illegal by law. So we must go through bargaining again. We must exhaust every step sec. 7 negotiations of the Railway Labor Act. This is at least 3 years away if not more.

To all of the NLS/HOS FA's, I personally don't blame you for doing a job that you were hired to do. Many of you are my friends and I would like to keep it that way. But you must understand that our way of life at CAL is based on seniority. By allowing many speakers positions on the flights undermines the entire system that FA's and their unions throughout the US have fought so hard to establish and maintain. You may not understand now, but as you become more senior, you will. Seniority means everything and is the only thing.

For all of the NTA/HTA/domestic FA's. Whether you like it or not. You will need to get off your rear-ends and make a stand against this company in a few short years down the road at the 2004 negotiations. EVEN IF THE COMPANY PUTS INDUSTRY LEADING COMPENSATION AND WORK RULES ON THE TABLE, WILL YOU HOLD UP A CONTRACT OVER THE SPEAKER ISSUE???

To all of the FA's, the company uses this whole issue to divide us time and time again to prevent us from having an INDUSTRY LEADING CONTRACT. The company knows that this issue will divide the FA's faster than anything else. We have to stop bickering and somehow come together as one. I wish I had the answer. Many of us were not required to be bilingual when we were hired, but let's face it, our jobs and its environment is changing daily. I am taking language classes for my own personal enrichment and to help me understand what is being said in the cabin when I work the EWR-BOG-UIO trips. Very few pax actually speak english. So somehow we are all going to have to meet in the middle on this issue, then proceed forward.

Sorry to rattle on... thanks for reading.

CALFLYBOY
null

[ 11-01-2001: Message edited by: Fly Right ]

Fly_Right

November 1, 2001, 08:45 PM

Attention Posters

Do not use profanity on this board. We can discuss a variety of issues, but the language used must not include foul language.

If you need a further information, e-mail me and I'll be happy to discuss this issue with you.

Fly Right
Moderator

[ 11-01-2001: Message edited by: Fly Right ]

skymuffin

November 3, 2001, 12:28 AM

CO's excuse for cutting back...we (f/a's) should just eliminate a service (cookie). It was bad enough doing a UK trip with 6 f/a's and starting a service once the previous was done. Just an excuse for CAL.

Chicago

November 4, 2001, 12:43 AM

Wow. This is odd.

--I've been brainwashed by my comrades over at CO that Continental is the purest form of co-woker love, peace, perfection, and bowls of cherries, since the Garden of Eden.

You guys are going for the jugular worse than I've ever seen at my woefully divided carrier. And at my carrier we own the patent to coworker "disunity" and management disdain.

Yeast infections? Promiscuity? Allegations of racist statements? Calling each other the "B" word?

Eeek.

images/icons/shocked.gif

devilinabluedress

November 4, 2001, 01:53 PM

Wow. Pretty impressive that a United person is posting on a Continental message board. I remember not too long ago you all wouldn't even share a hotel van with us...

I don't think that anyone at my company would argue that Bethune has done a miraculous job turning this place around. HOWEVER, most of us are not deluded enough to ignore the fact that he is a businessman. The nature of management/worker relationship is adversarial with very few exceptions. Increasing profits, cutting costs. Unfortunately, the work force is usually perceived as a cost and is the last to share in the profits. This is not new and is the reason why almost all of us have unions, no?

I'm sorry if anyone was offended by my latest posts. I tend to get sarcastic when I am personally attacked. If you look at my original remark, it had nothing whatsoever to do with speakers anyway. I still am curious as to what I said that prompts these allegations of racism.

At any rate, I think that the discussion as a whole has been fairly calm. You should see people talking about it in the galley...

Continental has problems just like any other corporation on the planet. That doesn't mean I would rather work anyplace else.

CO/HNL-IAH

November 8, 2001, 12:21 AM

Have we lost sight of the fact that Continental Airlines is a profit seeking enterprise? Gordon has a responsibility to the shareholders, the people who have paid $16-40 for one tiny share of stock -- the same people who can only expect a few cents return on their investment every three months, if at all. Even Gordo has to answer to them!

I've arrived at the conclusion that the people who REALLY run Continental is the Marketing Department. THEY decide where we fly, what planes to use, what the inflight service is going to be, who's going to provide that service (whether they speak English or Swahili), how much we can hope to charge for the seats, and maybe, how much profit the company can expect. EVERYBODY ELSE is just an adjunct to the business plan.

For example: why are we still serving hot meals on short-haul Latin America flights? It used to be said that we did it because American did. But now that we're about the only carrier serving food domestically, why are we committing so much resources to continue that? Just a guess ... maybe, the customers who buy the tickets (and generate the revenue to keep us in the air) WANT IT??

We Americans are so spoiled, sometimes. We can drive our cars, or hop a bus (or train or jet) to get us where we want to go. Some of our customers don't enjoy the "luxury" of everyday air travel and may not be comfortable venturing outside their country if there wasn't someone on the flight who spoke their native language. What does it REALLY cost to have a foreign language speaking F/A onboard when you dilute the cost among the revenue customers ... a few cents an hour?

These are difficult times for all of us -- not just Americans or Christians or people who work in the airline industry. We can do more good by unifying and taking care of one another than standing alone and nitpicking each other to death.

HADES

November 8, 2001, 01:24 PM

This reply goes to Ms. Devilinabluedress.
It is so sad to see how one person can make a difference. Your attitude, rude and racial remarks has shown other airline crewmembers that we are the worst in the industry. Well, to all other crewmembers of other airlines we are not like this one individual. We are all going through some rough times since 911 and cutbacks and suspension of flights have been happening in the whole industry. As far as the language base I will definitely say that if it wasn't for our Language Base Flight attendants CAL would not be where it is right now. They take the time after their service to help non-English speaking pax's with their Docs; and we're talking more than one. And this not only happens on trips to South America like that comment she made. I have seen it in all International flights I have done. I even had a elderly scottish lady who only spoke Gaelic, not a word of english. And to the other member who distinctiveley said that this is an AMERICAN CARRIER I guess you live in a different America because the US is not made up of english speaking people only. The United States is a country made up of different cultures, languages and beliefs. Here people speak many different languages, and come from all walks of life. I wish that these racial remarks end someday. images/icons/frown.gif images/icons/shocked.gif images/icons/frown.gif images/icons/shocked.gif images/icons/frown.gif images/icons/shocked.gif images/icons/frown.gif

CO757

November 8, 2001, 07:25 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by HADES:
This reply goes to Ms. Devilinabluedress.
It is so sad to see how one person can make a difference. Your attitude, rude and racial remarks has shown other airline crewmembers that we are the worst in the industry. Well, to all other crewmembers of other airlines we are not like this one individual. We are all going through some rough times since 911 and cutbacks and suspension of flights have been happening in the whole industry. As far as the language base I will definitely say that if it wasn't for our Language Base Flight attendants CAL would not be where it is right now. They take the time after their service to help non-English speaking pax's with their Docs; and we're talking more than one. And this not only happens on trips to South America like that comment she made. I have seen it in all International flights I have done. I even had a elderly scottish lady who only spoke Gaelic, not a word of english. And to the other member who distinctiveley said that this is an AMERICAN CARRIER I guess you live in a different America because the US is not made up of english speaking people only. The United States is a country made up of different cultures, languages and beliefs. Here people speak many different languages, and come from all walks of life. I wish that these racial remarks end someday. images/icons/frown.gif images/icons/shocked.gif images/icons/frown.gif images/icons/shocked.gif images/icons/frown.gif images/icons/shocked.gif images/icons/frown.gif<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Don't even go there.....You don't speak for the employees of CO. Each of us has our own voice and your opinion is that...an opinion.

As a shareholder, I expect Continental to provide safe, reliable, and excellent customer service. Customer Service does include offering language speakers, but not to the extent that overlooks the seniority of all the other FA's.

Devil's remarks doesn't show that CO FA's are rude, rather it shows we are human. We don't all think similarly, as is evident from your post.

We are an American Carrier and the primary language here is E-N-G-L-I-S-H! You folks are to much....what do you think will happen when we merge with one of the other carriers? You folks will loose the positions you have now...so enjoy them while you can....for later they will be gone! images/icons/grin.gif

HADES

November 13, 2001, 10:02 PM

For your information 757, first I do speak for co employees because I am one. Another thing you don't realize that other airlines only hire if you can speak more than one language. Don't feel bad because you've become a minority and spanish people have become the majority in this country. Seniority IS very important, but why sacrifice those that have other special talents for those that only know how to say chicken or beef in one simple language. think about it. If your flying to Tel Aviv and there is only one english speaking passenger you think he/she is going to translate for you everything that they sepak on the A/C. Don't think that seniority is power because it isn't. last minute if you can't do the job for those people that do not speak english they'll go to an airline where someone can. And thats a loss for us, just because your more interested in seniority than profit. For your information I have been in this company as a flight attendant for 22 years. I have seen it all. And seniority doesn't pay my bills, profit does. images/icons/wink.gif

HADES

November 13, 2001, 10:06 PM

Another thing co757 if seniority is so important to you. How come you haven't spoken up like the speakers have in reference to the supervisors that have been down graded to F/A and have been giving their hire bidding seniority. When the contract states very clearly that they have to start from the bottom again for bidding. There's something for you to fight in reference of seniority. If it is so important to you let's see you do something about this like the speakers have done. images/icons/tongue.gif

devilinabluedress

November 14, 2001, 07:47 PM

Well Hades...(what an appropriate name for you.)

You go ahead and continue to make apologies to members of other airlines. I'll continue to speak the truth. YOU of all people, if you've been flying for 22 years like you contend, should know how the other majors have treated us in the past. Not to mention that my response was a tongue-in-cheek reply to the similarly worded post before it.

If you are going to call me a racist, BACK IT UP!!! Once again, I said that the people on certain South American routes do not speak English. That is all I said. It is their RIGHT not to speak English and I could care less if they do or not.

As far as your concerns with the speakers, I'm just wondering how on Earth you managed to get through that whole flight to the UK without a Gaelic speaker on board. I'm guessing somehow you did... Your concerns for those of us who fly Tel Aviv is misplaced. If you've flown one of those trips you would know that a good portion of are passengers are indeed Palestinian. Why do you suppose we have no Arabic speakers onboard? How DO those flight attendants do it?

I'm not saying that speakers are unnecessary, that they don't work just as hard as the rest of us, or that they don't deserve respect for the extra responsibilities that go along with their job. I am tired of hearing that it is due to them that this company is where it is today. That's incorrect, unfair and rude to the rest of us.

You say you've seen it all. Well obviously you haven't seen section 16-3 E or LOA 22 of our contract which expressly states that a flight attendant who transfers to any inflight area below Director level will keep and continue to accrue seniority. Who are you talking about? Is Shirley Minn trying to bid a FCO line? What exactly have "the speakers" done?

HADES

November 14, 2001, 10:54 PM

Well for your information devilinabluedress, whether you admit or not YES this company has become what it is because of the speakers. Not Barbie dolls trying their best to look pretty and not be able to answer a question to non-english speaking passenger. It's because of the speaker program that COA has been able to get the vast majority of foreign passengers from other airlines. And it is due to that program that COA has become what it is today. So even if you find it rude and or disrespectful to you or any other flight attendant you can not hide from the truth. We are working real hard to get rid of the IAM and bring in the UPFA. A union that will work for the employee not the employer. Plus thanks to us we got a speaker position back on the 777 for next month (whether you like it or not) and will get the rest of the positions. We have sent a petition signed by more than 300 flight attendants from all the languages available in the language base (not only spanish) to Gordon Bethune and we know he'll work with us. It's because of us that we got the Havana Charters away from IAH to EWR for next month; because we wrote to Gordon About it. Now you know what we speakers are doing and will continue to do. And I repeat whether you like it or not. images/icons/grin.gif images/icons/rolleyes.gif images/icons/grin.gif images/icons/rolleyes.gif images/icons/grin.gif images/icons/rolleyes.gif

HADES

November 14, 2001, 11:03 PM

Another thing Miss Know-it-all I guess you were not wearing your reading glasses when your read 16-3-e. It staes verly clearly in black and white " A flight attendant who transfers to or performs any non-flying duties below I repat below the directors level within inflight related areas (inflight, inflight employee relations, inflight training, Corporate training, Inflight recruiting, or inflight scheduling) will retain and continue to accrue seniority for all purposes. Now where did you see there supervisors. They are in the director level and above. Where it states "flight attendants transferring to the director level and above positions will be romeoved from the system senoirity list. Read your material before you speak! images/icons/blush.gif

HADES

November 14, 2001, 11:09 PM

Oh and before I forget the LOA22 says management employees below the officer level (not supervisors) should remain on the system seniority list. Employees not currently on the flight attendant system seniority list serving in management positions at the director level (supervisors) or above, and those transferred into such positions AFTER the date of this agreement will only be entitled to placement or retention on the seniority list IN the event the provisions of Section 1(D) become applicable. Do you understand all this or would you like me to explain it to you in street talk. images/icons/wink.gif

devilinabluedress

November 15, 2001, 01:24 AM

Actually, an inflight supervisor IS below the director level. As far as I can tell, all you have done my making some sort of stink about Nestor, Tony, et.al. going back on line is make us all look like idiots for not understanding our own contract. How's that for street talk?

You never answered any of my questions as to how you made it through that flight with NOBODY to translate Gaelic for you or how you possibly get through to the Palestinians on those TLV trips.

By the way, thanks for putting all of your true feelings into print. Thanks for sharing that you think that all of us non-FLS are just a bunch of Barbies and have had nothing to do with the success here. Thanks for sharing your intent and victory to gain positions away from your coworkers. I wonder how the folks in Houston feel about your little coup... Above all thanks for writing it down so that I can show the rest of the company what you guys are all about. Enjoy it while you can...there are more of us than there are of you.

CO757

November 15, 2001, 04:45 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by HADES:
Another thing Miss Know-it-all I guess you were not wearing your reading glasses when your read 16-3-e. It staes verly clearly in black and white " A flight attendant who transfers to or performs any non-flying duties below I repat below the directors level within inflight related areas (inflight, inflight employee relations, inflight training, Corporate training, Inflight recruiting, or inflight scheduling) will retain and continue to accrue seniority for all purposes. Now where did you see there supervisors. They are in the director level and above. Where it states "flight attendants transferring to the director level and above positions will be romeoved from the system senoirity list. Read your material before you speak! images/icons/blush.gif<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hades,

You are a god, we should all be bowing before your presence (I'm actually doing that right now...you just can't see it). I hope you will welcome my humble comments on the above quote and previous messages.

In my humble opinion, I believe it would be in your best interest to proof-read your posts. You may find the same spelling and grammatical errors others have read. While you may have mastered your native language, you have quite a few more classes to take on English.

Oh god of the underworld, we are so grateful for your presence here on this pitiful board. How Continental survived before you arrived is beyond me. Forget all the other 40,000 or so employees; this company rose from the ashes due to your wonderful presence (which is surprising, as the god of the underworld...you are disinclined to allow those who have seen you to rise from your presence).

Customers must be awe struck by seeing the God of the Underworld - ruler of the dead onboard. Oh wait, you're very rarely seen (since you visit only when wearing your helmet of invisibility). Does this mean you have an attendance problem? Oh my god...forgive me for implying such a thing!

Thank you for reading this message.

Your humble servant:

CO757

P.S. For your own enlightenment I have highlighted your errors in italics.

[ 11-15-2001: Message edited by: CO757 ]

devilinabluedress

November 15, 2001, 12:24 PM

Well done CO757!

HADES

November 16, 2001, 12:51 PM

HA, HA, HA You guys really make me laugh. This is what COA relies on Ha Ha Ha I just can't stop laughing. CO757 for your info yes U have mastered my language which is english for I am 100% full blooded Native American. I speak spanish because I learned it in school. And anout my mistakes for the typos before hey crap happens when you do things to quick and then leave. To devilinabluedress show IAH my letter show them that because of the FLS and every other FLS in the whole industry we've become who we are. Sorry if it hurts your feelins but the truth is the truth. How pitiful, it is to see 2 grown up persons act like total children over a topic. As for Nestor he was giving a 6 yr bidding seniority and Tony was fired. And supervisors are in the management level dear, I was one. images/icons/grin.gif images/icons/grin.gif images/icons/grin.gif images/icons/grin.gif

HADES

November 16, 2001, 12:54 PM

oh and before I forget "we are more than what you think." images/icons/grin.gif

HADES

November 16, 2001, 12:56 PM

CO757 for your info HADES was the god of the underworld in ancient times. But this HADES happens to be all woman! images/icons/blush.gif

P.R._#1

November 16, 2001, 01:19 PM

HEY GUYS WE SOULD STOP THIS CHILDS PLAY AND GET WITH THE PROGRAM. I WORKED FOR COA WHEN THE LORENZO DAYS AND HAVE JUST RETIRED A YEAR AGO. THIS IS NOT THE FIRST TIME WE'VE BEEN THROUGH THIS. BUT IT HAS TO STOP IF YOU WANT YOUR COMPANY TO PROGRESS. THIS WAR BETWEEN NTA AND NLS HAS BEEN GOING ON SINCE NLS PROGRAM WAS MADE. I PERSONALLY WAS IN NTA FOR AT LEAST 17 YEARS. THE NTA PEOPLE HAVE BEEN TRYING WITH THE IAM TO GET RID OF THE SPEAKER PROGRAM FOR YEARS NOW. I KNOW A COUPLE OF CO-WORKERS THAT HAVE BEEN WORKING WITH THE IAM TO HAVE THIS COME ABOUT. FOR ME ALL MY CO-WORKERS ARE PROFESSIONALS REGARDLESS THE BASE THEY WORK. IN A TIME OF EMERGENCY WE WILL HAVE TO WORK TOGETHER TO SURVIVE. THIS WAY THAT I SEE THE THINGS AND HOW THEY'RE GOING I DOUBT IT WILL GET ANY BETTER. SENIORITY IS VERY IMPORTANT IN THIS BUSINESS. MY VIEW IS IF IT BOTHERS YOU THAT A 4 YEAR FLIGHT ATTENDANT IS HOLDING A LINE IN THE NLS BASE AND A 10 YEAR FLIGHT ATTENDANT IS ON RESERVE IN NTA, THEN LEARN A LANGUAGE AND TRANSFER. AND YOU'LL BE HOLDING A LINE. IN A WAY IT'S GOOD THAT RESERVE IN NTA IS DOWN TO 11 YEARS BECAUSE SOME OF THE NTA PEOPLE ARE OR I SHOULD SAY WERE VERY RUDE AND NASTY TO RESERVES THAT CAME ON BOARD. NOW THEY HAVE A TASTE OF THEIR OWN MEDICINE. images/icons/wink.gif NOW I WRITE THIS AND I HOPE NOBODY TAKES IT PERSONAL BECAUSE IT IS NOT MEANT TO BE PERSONAL. AS FOR YOU DEVILINABLUEDRESS YOUR WASTING YOUR TIME LISTENING TO HADES HE/SHE HAS HIS/HER POINT OF VIEW AND THAT'S ALL IT IS. CO757 THE SAME GOES TO YOU WORK THINGS PROFESSIONALLY AND YOU'LL SEE RESULTS. DON'T STOOP TO THE OTHERS LEVEL THATS WHAT I ALWAYS SAY. images/icons/smile.gif