777 Flight Crew Bunks - Rock a Bye Baby

[secondbreak]

Just done a long range on a 777 for the first time. How precious are these flight deck?????? Captain comes bursting out of bunks complaining that a crew memmber has had the cheek to walk past the bunks while he was on his break!!!!!
Tried to get a word in to say that we are perfectly entitled to walk past the bunks, and that we have a meal service to do, and he said we should only walk past the bunks in tne event of an emergency!
I said we had not received a red notice to this effect, and he said that as he was the captain, if he said not to walk past the bunks, we DO NOT WALK PAST THE BUNKS! Then said he was not rested enough to land the aircraft, and threw the rest of his toys out the pram.
Feel like reporting the B*****D as he shouted at 3 crew in full hearing of passengers. I'm sure I'm correct in thinking we can use the aisle between First and Club. What do you think????? images/icons/mad.gif

[mush]

I had the same problem...and ...the f/d was right...cabin crew should only use the curtained area by the f/d bunk area only if/when there is an emergency...

Unfortunately this is "fact" for BALPA but hasn t been communicated to the cabin crew..."yet".
I have written an operation report...but I guess it takes time to process it...

[secondbreak]

Hi Mush

Just heard from BASSA, who say that although this has been agreed with BALPA, it was thrown out by both cabin crew unions. As BALPA is a flight crew union, they have no juristriction over us. Watch this space, I'll let u know if/when I hear anything!!

[icenlemon]

Of course we all want to have a quiet area to take our breaks. But flight Deck who are unhappy with their rest area at the back of First Class on a 777, should take the noise issue up with all unions and BA. It's not our fault that BA has provided our F/D coleagues with a poorly designed rest area. By putting a bunk unit in the Cabin, you are going to subject it's occupants to the surronding noises.
I suggest that F/Deck take out their frustration out on BA, and ask for a better designed/positioned Rest Area, rather than take it out on the Cabin Crew, who are, incidentally, WORKING in that area.

[mush]

I agree with you and with them...
1) The position of the f/d bunks is not ideal but apparently temporary...watch this space...I ll retire in just 16yrs..
2) They need their rest as much as we do
3) There is no need to use the loo behind the heavy curtain expecially when they are having a rest...
4) There is not a great need for crew to walk through that area to go/come to/from F
Live and let live ....while the problem is sorted out..

[brit_air_guy]

I had the same situation on a SAN , one of the crew by habit walked past the bunk area and the Captain came out and in full view of the pax in F shouted at the crew member, not very nice, the later a/c have the rest area above D1L so this problem will go over time.

I do find it strange that when the F/D sleep in F they dont seem to mind us walking past though !

[Carnage_Matey]

secondbreak

I'm sure you don't need me to tell you this but the fact that BALPA have no jurisdiction over cabin crew is totally irrelevant to your point. Fact is if the captain says you don't walk past the crew bunks then you don't do it - no ifs, no buts. I've no doubt BASSA don't like this idea, but at the end of the day they're just a union with no legal authority on board the aircraft. Unpalatable as it may be to some union officials, on board the aircraft what the Captain says goes.

[icenlemon]

I thought that we were rid of the "GOD COMPLEX" among flight crew.... How wrong can I be! It's alive and well folks!
Are you telling me that all the hard fought for agreements between BASSA/CC89 and BA mean nothing on board an aircraft because the Capatains word is final?
The noise from the club world galley on a 777 will continue, it's an area where people work, and walk thru'. The fact that BA has chosen this area (and a very poor choice at that)for F/D bunks, is a very poor choice indeed. Again, I suggest that Flight crew take up the issue with BALPA and BA, and ask for a re-positioning of the bunks. Don't take this out on the Cabin Crew.

[Chrislhr]

The previous poster is absolutely right. Short of you directly endagering yourself you have to do what the "commander" of the aircraft says. However if you disagree with him, the process is that you report him afterwards and the companny then deals with it. If you aren't into grassing (unless of course he's a reall toss-pot) you could always fill out a confidential safety report.
If the offending pilot was to publicly humiliate you or just be overbearing in his treatment of you that would, I imagine, be tantamount to harassment at work and again could lead to disciplinary. I hate grassing but if I felt threatened or intimidated in my workplace I would have no qualms. It's the game you have to play at BA.

[Carnage_Matey]

God complex? I don't think you'll find many people with a god complex, just an understanding of the rules of the company and the law of the land. I really don't care what hard fought agreements BASSA/CC89 have come to with BA. They are only a framework for working practices on board the aircraft. Once that aircraft is underway we'll try to respect your working agreements whenever possible, but first and foremost we'll respect the safety of the aircraft. If that means the Captain has to declare certain areas off-limits in order to protect his/her legally required rest period then so be it. The fact that the 777 bunks are in a bad position is lamentable, and BALPA has raised the issue with BA repeatedly, but that doesn't make it any less important that the crew, take their rest, nor does it diminish the fact that if the Captain issues a legal instruction in his/her capacity as legal commander of the aircaft it is to be obeyed. I don't recall a paragraph in the Air Navigation Order that states that membership of BASSA/CC89 exempts you from the law. Unless your union rep can show me otherwise. If people feel the situation warrants a confidential safety report then submit one, but I think the safety implications of refusing to obey the Captains instructions and denying the flight crew rest are quite obvious.

[icenlemon]

Your reply says it all. Thanks for enlightening me. This will be my last 'post' on this topic.
Happy and safe flying to all.

[Chrislhr]

Carnage Matey

I take it that you were quoting me about making a confidential report in your post. If you read my post carefully you'll notice that I pretty much agreed with you. What I don't agree with is the point of second break's original thread, namely being humiliated by the said captain. That sort of behavious is totally uncalled for and very unprofessional for an aircraft commander. A polite explanation that he was indeed being disturbed would have been perfectly adequate. I'm afraid that your rather arrogant posts confirm that a very small minority of flight crew do suffer from a god complex. Are you aware that in internet etiquette bold type is considered shouting? Adjectives are all that are required to emphasise your point.

P.S. Perhaps now you now why many flight crew aren't always invited to room parties

[Carnage_Matey]

Chrislhr

Yes I did note that you agreed with me and yes, I do think that if the incident happened the way it was reported then the Captains people management skills are rather lacking - there are no circumstances in which it is necessary to humiliate any of your colleagues.

I don't consider my posts arrogant, I am merely re-stating facts which 99% of all flying crew are au-fait with. Neither do I have any form of God complex and I generally enjoy a harmonious working environment with all my colleagues, be they cabin crew, engineers, dispatcers or anyone else.

But, there are a number of comments on this thread which alarm me and would probably have the same effect on other flight crew. Here's a selection:

tried to get a word in to say that we are perfectly entitled to walk past the bunks........I'm sure I'm correct in thinking we can use the aisle between First and Club. What do you think?????
Is it just possible that if the guy says you're not to walk past there then he's telling the truth? Anything else youd like to second guess the captain on. If the CSD tells me we're short of something I trust them.

...it was thrown out by both cabin crew unions. As BALPA is a flight crew union, they have no juristriction over us.

What so if BASSA don't like what the Captain has to say its OK to ignore it? I don't like what the company has to say sometimes-shall we all make up our own rules?

...GOD COMPLEX" among flight crew.... How wrong can I be! It's alive and well folks!
Why is it that this accusation is reeled out everytime somebody attempts to point out that the skipper has the final say on the aircraft. There aren't many people who think they're god but there has to be someone in charge and a very small minority of people are beginning to forget who that is. Captains dont expect to be worshipped, but they do expect to be listened to.

Now this next one is extracted from your otherwise very sound post Chrislhr

If you aren't into grassing (unless of course he's a reall toss-pot) you could always fill out a confidential safety report.

Now there are ways and means of reporting people who you perceive have been harassing you but a safety report? Do you think thats what safety reports are for? Is there a major safety issue here (other than some touchy-feeler CRM)? OK, if you think the guys an a**hole then report him, but is he dangerous?

I'll leave these points open to debate if anyone can be bothered. BTW chrislhr internet etiquette I'm used uses this as emphasis and THIS as shouting so my apologies for any misunderstanding.

[secondbreak]

Thanks guys for all you posts on this subject. My main point was the way I was spoken to/shouted at my the captain. What I did not say at the time was that the real culprit who was walking past the bunks was a First passenger in 3K, whose friend was seated in 12K in Club. I politely asked him to walk the 'long way round', which he did at first, but I did see him walk past the bunks later on.

I felt I did all I could by informing the pasenger initially. And anyway, I do not have time to sit by the curtain on sentry duty. Perhaps I should have directed the captain to shout at the real culprit, and, by the way, the one who was paying our salaries!!!!
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