Canada Air Charter

[yvr01]

Canada Air charter was denied the use of a European charter B747 and therefore it stranded some 700 passengers on the ground in Mirabel and Port-Au-Prince. Those passengers left Montreal today using an Air Transat aircraft.

Do you think we should allow foreign carriers to operate flights to third countries? Like this was the case. They wanted to use a UK based airline to operate their flights between Montreal and Haïti. I personnaly think that it is a good thing to protect our carriers, especially in a globalizing world. If we let foreign carriers do what they want there won't be a lot of us staying after a few years...

Anyhow it all ended good for those passengers and Canada Air Charter can always use those canadian carriers like us (AT) , Air Columbus or Skyservice!!!

See ya!

[yvr01]

Yes but actually none of these flights departed because the 747 is grounded. The 747 is registered in the UK and the company is European charter air or something loke that. Because it is not owned by a canadian company it cannot fly from Canada to Haiti. So today Air Transat flew those passengers tp PAP. It is not known what will happen to Canada Air Charter but they will need to find a canadian plane to operate their flights.

[alitalia_747]

wow! I never knew the airline industry was this strict!! Thanx for the info images/icons/smile.gif

[alitalia_747]

I checked the Mirabel schedule and for the past week there is always EA written on the schedule. It goes to and from Haiti only! so is this Canada Air Charter??

[Ryanair]

CNEWS
About 380 travellers, stranded in Haiti by airline, finally get to Montreal MONTREAL(CP) -- Passengers stranded at Montreal's Mirabel airport for nearly a week finally returned to Haiti on Thursday and a long-delayed planeload of travellers arrived from Port-au-Prince.
About 380 people arrived from Haiti but another 120 were still waiting in the airport in the Haitian capital for a flight north.

The delays at both airports occurred after Transport Canada refused to license a flight planned by Canada Air Charter.
While airline officials tried to resolve the problem, passengers were forced to camp out in both airports. The charter airline was operating in conjunction with European Aviation Air Charter.
"We couldn't take off because we didn't have a permit," said Steve Nasra, president of Canada Air Charter. He said the charter airline's problems began with the collapse of Canada 3000 "which was our main operator. We can't find planes right now. If we cease operations, I'd bet that planes would become available everywhere."
At Mirabel airport, weary travellers said they were happy to arrive from Haiti but fed up with how they were treated.
"It was ridiculous," said Stephanie Dupre, a nurse who worked in Haiti for the Canadian International Development Agency.
"No one knew anything. Every day we waited 10 hours at the airport, and every day the flight was cancelled. We're survivors." Dupre said the environment at the Haitian airport was oppressive.
"Everyone was very aggressive, and pushed in order to get onto the flight," said Dupre, who added that she joined in the effort to make sure she got aboard the plane. "We had no choice."
Two Canadian companies answered a call to handle the Canadian charter company's business, but charged $100,000 per flight.
Canada Air Charter said Transport Canada's decision came after Air Canada intervened when it saw the charter was carrying 27,000 passengers a year.
On June 21, Transport Canada formally refused to grant Canada Air Charter the right to fly between Montreal and the Haitian capital of Port-au-Prince.
The federal agency declined the special permission needed for European Aviation Air Charter to operate in Canada. Two Canadian carriers, Sky Service and Kelowna Flightcraft, had opposed the special permission bid.
The latest delay left many of the stranded passengers angry at the charter for failing to provide meal coupons until Wednesday.
The airline also provided passengers with a voucher for a future free return flight.
Sylvie Charette, a nurse, said sometimes the travellers waiting at the Haitian airport got only one meal a day. As for flying with the Canada Air Charter, she said, "Never again."

[alitalia_747]

I was at Mirabel yesterday and saw the 747 from Europen Air Charter. Is that plane gonna fly for CAC or is it going back to the UK??

Hey yvr01 how do u get that Air Transat symbol to appear near your name??

[ 07-06-2002, 11:56 AM: Message edited by: alitalia_747 ]

[yvr01]

Canada Air Charter ceased its operations. Here what I found on www.radio-canada.ca: (http://www.radio-canada.ca:)

Canada Air Charter cesse ses opérations
Mise à jour le vendredi 5 juillet 2002, 21 h 05 .
.
.La compagnie Canada Air Charter, qui agissait comme grossiste et agence de voyage, a remis volontairement ses permis à l'Office de la protection du consommateur. Cette compagnie avait attiré l'attention plus tôt cette semaine alors que des voyageurs qui partaient pour Haïti avaient dû attendre 90 heures avant de pouvoir s'envoler de Mirabel.
En fait, l'Office des Transports du Canada avait refusé à Canada Air Charter dès le 21 juin dernier une demande pour une soixantaine de vols prévus jusqu'à la fin octobre. La compagnie a tenté de faire renverser cette décision, mais peine perdue, elle a essuyé un nouveau refus le 25 juin. Comme elle ne pouvait plus vendre de billets, elle a donc cessé ses opérations. L'avocat Paul Unterberg s'apprête d'ailleurs à déposer un recours collectif au nom de tous ces voyageurs lésés. En attendant, l'Office de la protection du consommateur a nommé un administrateur provisoire pour régler tous les dossiers courants.

If you need a translation let me know!
this is again a spam message please ignorethis is again a spam message please ignorethis is again a spam message please ignore this is again a spam message please ignorethis is again a spam message please ignorethis is again a spam message please ignore this is again a spam message please ignorethis is again a spam message please ignorethis is again a spam message please ignore this is again a spam message please ignorethis is again a spam message please ignorethis is again a spam message please ignore

[yvr01]

I heard that plane is flying back to the UK tomorow (sunday). I think that it is not going to fly for CAC...

As for the logo, ask crewstart, he put it there for me!

See ya!

[YYCFA]

Well, what a crock of sh*t.

Transport Canada, in its efforts to "Protect Canada's Aviation industry", has actually managed to further reduce competition, and stifle new business in the Canada air market.

Canada Air Charter offered a new product to a new niche market. However, due to the lack of Canadian Charter companies with available aircraft, they had to look overseas (to the UK) to secure a B747 from European Aviation Air Charter (a specialised company that hires out aircraft to other operators).

But then, Transport Canada stepped in, and denied EAAC the right to fly from Canada to non-eu destinations, leaving Canada Air Charter with bookings and passengers, but no aircraft to fly the routes.

So, Transport Canada, Congratulations. You've succeeded in:

1. Stifling new Canadian aviation business
2. Reducing the amount of direct routes from Canada to certain markets not currently served (e.g Abidjan)
3. Causing the closure of Canada Air Charter
4. Leaving Hundreds of air passengers stranded overseas
5. Further enhancing the Air Canada monopoly on the Canadian air market

Way to go.

[Ryanair]

YYCFA, way to go!
I agree that it is unfair about the decision made by Transport Canada.
One question. Is the 'plane and crews have CAC colours.uniforms?

[yvr01]

The plane has the logo of European aviation air charter, I saw it in Mirabel. As for CAC crew, I don't know, I heard that they were sent in Britain for training... But it is too bad, because the airline won't take off now...

[CD]

Originally posted by YYCFA:
...But then, Transport Canada stepped in, and denied EAAC the right to fly from Canada to non-eu destinations, leaving Canada Air Charter with bookings and passengers, but no aircraft to fly the routes...<font size="2" face="Arial, Verdana ">Just as a point of clarification, these decisions were made by the Canadian Transportation Agency (CTA) and not Transport Canada.

Transport Canada is responsible for the development of regulations and national standards, as well as for the implementation of monitoring, testing, inspections, research and development and subsidy programs, which contribute to safety and security in the aviation, marine, rail and road modes of transport.

The Canadian Transportation Agency is an independent, quasi-judicial tribunal that makes decisions on a wide range of economic matters involving federally-regulated modes of transportation (air, rail and marine), and has the powers, rights and privileges of a superior court to exercise its authority. Along with its roles as an economic regulator and an aeronautical authority, the Agency works to facilitate accessible transportation, and serves as a dispute resolution authority over certain transportation rate and service complaints.

Here are links to the decisions that the CTA rendered with respect to Univers Gestion Multi-Voyages Inc. carrying on business as Canada Air Charter:

Decision No. 185-A-2002 (http://www.cta-otc.gc.ca/rulings-decisions/decisions/2002/A/185-A-2002_e.html)

Decision No. 334-A-2002 (http://www.cta-otc.gc.ca/rulings-decisions/decisions/2002/A/334-A-2002_e.html)

Order No. 2002-A-188 (http://www.cta-otc.gc.ca/rulings-decisions/orders/2002/A/2002-A-188_e.html)

Decision No. 348-A-2002 (http://www.cta-otc.gc.ca/rulings-decisions/decisions/2002/A/348-A-2002_e.html)

[Sowwy,_we_don't_have_Rootbeer]

QUOTE:

So, Transport Canada, Congratulations. You've succeeded in:

1. Stifling new Canadian aviation business

END OF QUOTE:

How would you feel if Easyjet came to Canada and decided to use their UK aircrafts, their UK Cabin Crew and fly YVR-YYC-YEG-YOW etc?! If Canadian Air Charter 's plan had been approved, it would have been a kinda foreign owned airline in the Canadian market... Do you really agree with this?

QUOTE:
2. Reducing the amount of direct routes from Canada to certain markets not currently served (e.g Abidjan)
END OF QUOTE:

Many routes planned for Canada Air Charter were double/triple stops... yes they are direct... but who says that those flights were full anyways?

QUOTE:
3. Causing the closure of Canada Air Charter
END OF QUOTE:

Well if your business plan does not respect Canadian Regulations... too bad so sad... Canada 3000 certainly deserved way more to be helped than Canada Air Charter

QUOTE:
5. Further enhancing the Air Canada monopoly on the Canadian air market
END OF QUOTE:

Does Air Canada really have the monopoly?! I don t think so... Plus if they do so, that is business and they have worked to go up there... Wouldn t Skyservice, Air Columbus, Air Transat like to have the charter market monopoly? Wouldn't Canjet, Jetsgo, West Jet have the Canadian and US domestic/transborders monopoly? And by the way, Air Canada don t even fly to the routes were Canada Air Charter have planned to go!

Please get the facts before next time...

[Sowwy,_we_don't_have_Rootbeer]

BTW, I honestly feel bad for those who got hired as a cabin crew... I am sure that you will another airline that d like to have you as part of their team... !!

BEST OF LUCK!!!

images/icons/frown.gif

[out.of.the.blue]

Hey the way I see it good luck to all of you!

Whatever you do DO NOT GET INVOLVED WITH CUPE .

If you must get unionized try the "TEAMSTERS" or the "CAW".

CUPE will only screw you. That's their specialty.

I hope you all prosper in this very unkind industry.

images/icons/smile.gif

[yvr01]

Thank you CD for that very informative post. All we can say is that Canada Air Charter did not comply with the Canadian regulations. Wether or not these regulations should be reviewed, that is the question? But the law is the law!

Too bad for the people who were hired by the airline though...

Good luck to all of them!

[ 07-08-2002, 08:57 PM: Message edited by: yvr01 ]

[CD]

Originally posted by yvr01:
Whether or not these regulations should be reviewed, that is the question?<font size="2" face="Arial, Verdana ">I believe that some of these economic regulations are/were being looked at as part of the Canada Transportation Act Review. You can read the report at:

Canada Transportation Act Review (http://www.reviewcta-examenltc.gc.ca/english/pages/final/tablee.htm)

As this report looks at the entire transportation industry in Canada, Chapter 7 deals specifically with the airline industry:

Canada Transportation Act Review ~ Chapter 7: The Airline Industry (http://www.reviewcta-examenltc.gc.ca/english/pages/final/tablee.htm)

Bienvenue au site de l'Examen de la Loi sur les transports au Canada // Welcome to the Canada Transportation Act Review Web site (http://www.reviewcta-examenltc.gc.ca/index.htm)

[YYCFA]

Thanks for your reply RootBeer.

However, I don't feel it is fair to tell me to get the facts before posting next time!

The posting reflects my personal views on the matter, and there were no facts stated in the posting that was not actually correct.

Yes, I believe Canadian aviation should be supported by Transport Canada, and as CD points out, in this case, The Canadian Transport Agency (Thanks for the clarification).

We must be realistic though. Right now, how many spare Canadian registered 747's or DC10's are sitting around, ready to be flown? To the best of my knowledge, Kelowna Flightcraft is one of the only major players in the ad-hoc or ACMI leasing business in Canada. Kelowna flightcraft do not have widebody longhaul aircraft. Air Atlanta, or in this case, EAAC, DO provide the product that Canada Air Charter needed.

By all means, if Canadian companies are able to provide CAC with the aircraft they require and on commerically viable terms, then YES, don't allow outside non-canadian companies in. In this case, however, CAC is not able to continue operating. There is no-one to offer a comparable service to EAAC, and it was mentioned in the press that Air Transat charged in excess of $10,000 for a one day lease of their aircraft to 'rescue' CAC passengers. Would Air Transat (or Skyservice) be able to offer long term lease of aircraft (without flight attendants) at competitive rates similar to European, to CAC? The answer is no.

Yes, the law is the law. But sometimes, we need to look at who the laws are protecting, and whether they are serving their intended purpose. In this case, laws to protect Canadian aviation appear to have resulted in the closure of a new venture.

On a final note, to question the fact that Air Canada has a monopoly seems somewhat bizarre. Air Canada is the ONLY Canadian Scheduled International carrier. Skyservice and Air Transat provide useful 'Vacation Package' flights, but for overseas business or independant travellers, Air Canada is the only option. WestJet and the other niche players offer competitive rates on domestic journeys, and alternatively, of course, one can fly United, American, British Airways, Swiss (all of whom are stepping up their Canadian flying). Increased foreign carrier flying, however, gives very little back to Canada. At least CAC was providing flying jobs to Canadians, and contributing to the Canadian economy.

[Sowwy,_we_don't_have_Rootbeer]

Hi YYCFA!

QUOTE:

Thanks for your reply RootBeer.

However, I don't feel it is fair to tell me to get the facts before posting next time!

END OF QUOTE:

Thanks for your reply as well.. I must admit that I was kinda shocked at the way you spilled everything out and as in, not again... Air Canada is the dominating airline again!

QUOTE:

The posting reflects my personal views on the matter, and there were no facts stated in the posting that was not actually correct.

Yes, I believe Canadian aviation should be supported by Transport Canada, and as CD points out, in this case, The Canadian Transport Agency (Thanks for the clarification).

END OF QUOTE:

I still feel that some of your points were not precise enough... That s my opinion images/icons/smile.gif As I have posted in a previous post... But hey, we re here to share our opinions right? images/icons/wink.gif

QUOTE:

We must be realistic though. Right now, how many spare Canadian registered 747's or DC10's are sitting around, ready to be flown? To the best of my knowledge, Kelowna Flightcraft is one of the only major players in the ad-hoc or ACMI leasing business in Canada. Kelowna flightcraft do not have widebody longhaul aircraft. Air Atlanta, or in this case, EAAC, DO provide the product that Canada Air Charter needed.

END OF QUOTE:

If they don t meet the regulations, that's it... It wouldn t be fair for the other players who actually follow the rules...

QUOTE:

By all means, if Canadian companies are able to provide CAC with the aircraft they require and on commerically viable terms, then YES, don't allow outside non-canadian companies in. In this case, however, CAC is not able to continue operating. There is no-one to offer a comparable service to EAAC, and it was mentioned in the press that Air Transat charged in excess of $10,000 for a one day lease of their aircraft to 'rescue' CAC passengers. Would Air Transat (or Skyservice) be able to offer long term lease of aircraft (without flight attendants) at competitive rates similar to European, to CAC? The answer is no.

END OF QUOTE:

The answer is no... you re right, but it wouldn t be fair if Air Transat, or Skyservice, or Air Canada or West Jet tried to do the same as Canada Air Charter...

QUOTE:

Yes, the law is the law. But sometimes, we need to look at who the laws are protecting, and whether they are serving their intended purpose. In this case, laws to protect Canadian aviation appear to have resulted in the closure of a new venture.

END OF QUOTE:

A real venture is a business that follows the rules... Maybe the rules need to be changed... by that time, maybe anyways, Canada Air Charter would not be able to compete if other airlines had those kinds of ressources... (Im not talking about any particuliar ones... I mean in general... They knew since the beginning that it wouldn t be allowed)... So not fair for the employees and the pax!

QUOTE:

On a final note, to question the fact that Air Canada has a monopoly seems somewhat bizarre. Air Canada is the ONLY Canadian Scheduled International carrier. Skyservice and Air Transat provide useful 'Vacation Package' flights, but for overseas business or independant travellers, Air Canada is the only option. WestJet and the other niche players offer competitive rates on domestic journeys, and alternatively, of course, one can fly United, American, British Airways, Swiss (all of whom are stepping up their Canadian flying). Increased foreign carrier flying, however, gives very little back to Canada. At least CAC was providing flying jobs to Canadians, and contributing to the Canadian economy.

END OF QUOTE:

BTW, Air Transat do have some sched service as well... If I m not mistaken, they have the sked rights to Cuba and Paris... Even though Tango is Air Canada, it is an alternative to the canadian domestic long-haul market.

I somewhat disagree with how some airlines reduce its cost of operation by cutting their Cabin crew s salary and quality of life. Ex.: West Jet... not paying the cabin crew while they have to groom the aircraft on ground (meaning no job openings for groomers + work with no pay for Cabin Attendants = more $ for shareholders and CEO!) + No premium for the Lead Flight Attendant while that person OBVIOUSLY HAS MORE RESPONSIBILITIES (therefore more flexibility in crewing flights as there is only one C/A class, No premiums = more $ for the shareholders and the CEO!). That I don t agree...

It would be fairplay if all the different services (In-Flight/Ground/ Mechanics/Customer Agents/Pilots/ etc.) had all one common union with the same working conditions across Canada, then it would be fair...

Anyways... we are not pros... so can only discuss and share our opinions.

Although, I must say that CD provides very informative articles! Thanks! images/icons/wink.gif

Keep writing YYCFA

[alitalia_747]

is Canada Air Charter flying now?? it seems that on the Mirabel arrival schedule there is a Canada Air Charter flight coming in from FCO. check it out at www.admtl.com (http://www.admtl.com)

[Ger13]

As far as I know Canada Air Charter closed its doors .......

Stranded passengers are still getting retrieved by the established Canadian Charter operators....

Looks like Air Columbus is expanding into this market offering YMX to Haiti 3 times a week ....

[alitalia_747]

I guesse Air Transat it taking some of their pax to Rome cause Tuesday and Wendsday night it showed Air Transat to FCO on the departure schedule but the next day on the Arrival schedule it showed cc3001 Rome/FCO

[Britannia_Boy]

A friend of mine that works as cabin-crew with European Aviation (who are leasing several 747s to Canada Air Charter) has said rumour around European is that CAC is trying to re-start ops after re-structuring.
Have you heard anything?
The 747s and their crews are supposesedly still in Canada?

[ 08-26-2002, 11:39 AM: Message edited by: Britannia Boy ]

[bmibaby]

Britannia Boy, European Aviation has two 747s still in Canada according to this months Airways Magazine, to see whether CAC will get it's license for start-up.
European Aviation is looking at purchasing up to 5 more 747-200s.