MD80s And Low Cost Carriers

[GB737]

I'll admit I stole this one from another board, but I'd be interested to know your thoughts for this:
In reply to:<hr />

With the rapid growth in the last few years of the low-cost carriers, it is interesting to note that in most instances the Classic 737-300 has been the favoured type. Recently the A320 family (as in jetBlue and easyjet) and the 737-700 (again easyjet and also Southwest) have become popular but, with the exception of Canada's Jetsgo, the MD80 family seems to have been left out of this boom.

Why is the MD80 not a popular type with low-cost operators? Is it to do with operating costs, handling or otherwise? Certainly it could be off-loaded rapidly with the folding door under the tail along with the front door and the family is well-suited for fast turn-arounds, both of which are pluses for low-cost carriers.
Any ideas?

[flymeaway]

In reply to:<hr />
Why is the MD80 not a popular type with low-cost operators?



Why use old (and imo uncomfortable) aircraft when they can use newer and more versatile (and imo more comfortable) 737's?

[swissnews]

flymeaway, that's absolutely incorrect! note that many A320s today in service are older than any MD-80s especially when you look at Jetsgo's fleet. The MD-80 was built until 1999 and is very well known in the industry for it's very comfortable cabine configuration of 2+3 instead of 3+3 (A320s and 737s). Plus the MD-80 is one of the quietest, fuel-efficient jets on the market, robustly and very cheap. Jetsgo is very happy with the MD-80. You have choosen the right aircraft Jetsgo, well done!!!

[YULWJ]

Actually JGo's youngest MD-80 is 1996 and that is the youngest one. The JT8-200's on the MD-80 are more fuel effecient than older 100 models like on 727 and DC-9's, but they are still low by-pass and not as fuel effecient as many other engines. In addition JGO seems to be having quite a few maintenance problems on these older aircraft. I see the poor maintenance guys with eng cowls open and APU doors open every day and night, fluid everywhere, freezing cold. I feel for those guys. An MD-80 is just a DC-9, cables and all with slightly newer engines and slightly newer avionics. Almost everything else is identical. The 717 however is new and redesigned. I'll take my 737-700 over an MD-80 anyday, and so would JGO if they could afford them. It would sure make their staff happy.

[swissnews]

Not at all! The MD-80 and especially the -83 is one of the most efficient aircraft on the market. In the 80s when she was introduced she was the best aircraft in it's category and is still very suitable for nowadays. It's not just a simply modified DC-9!!! Jetsgo's poor maintenance has NOTHING to do with the type they operate. If they had this poor maintenance with brand new 737-700 they would have the same problem, there you can go sure for! New is not automatically = good! But well, you hate the MD-80 and you dont't care the MD-80. What a luck you're not the president of Jetsgo! :grin: Believe me or not, but Michel Leblanc has very good reasons for flying the MD-80! The MD-80 has many, many years to come!!! Go MD-80, Go Jetsgo!

[RyguyWJ]

Swissguy says they are great, YULWJ says they are not..

Can somebody who is thoroughly experienced in aircraft types answer this question? I'm very curious..

RY

[SpiritA320]

Spirit has the MD 81s, 82s and 83s. And are quite happy with them. They will be retired within the next 5 years as they are getting older but it is a very reliable aircraft. They rarely break down. I dont like working it as a f/A but from an operations stand point they are great

[YULWJ]

I am a Mech and I have worked on and have the endorsement courses for both aircraft. Even the douglas instructors say all the Md-80 series is is a DC-9 with some fancy avionics. Alomost evrything is the same,cables and all, a diffrent dash of the same eng ect... Mind you the engine is quite a bit more fuel effecient. But it's a pain to work on.What can I say to each his own. But to me the best aircraft in the came category are the 737-700 and the A-320. MD_80's are exactly what there name says 80's. Old technology, and old style thinking.

[swissnews]

YULWJ, have fun with your ultra-modern B737NGs and A320s! You guys have your thing and we have our thing that we love. If guys like you love high tech 737NGs/A320s and guys like me love the 80'style MD-80s then that's the way it is! :wink_2:

[Lame.]

I can never understand why more Airlines do not use the MD80.

The only ones we ever had in Australia was at Southern Cross (Compass 2), and they were very popular and successful, the Airline went out of business sadly, but NOT because of the Aircraft.

I did the MD80 Course at McDonnell Douglas, and as someone has pointed out most of the systems are the same right back to the original DC9s.

Many times during the Course at Douglas, people who were obviously only familiar with Airbuses or Boeings, would say why don't you do it this way or other.

The Instructors would just say, it has been working well that way for 40 years, why change it. :smile_2:

And they are right. :wink_2:

[5GFA]

You call JetsGo's MD's Quiet???? I gather you don't live in the runway path of YYZ??? Or have been behind one of your own planes at take off. HOLY SHIT. They are ear splitting to hear take off. Sitting on the taxi way behind the MD is another thing. Shakes the hell out of our 320's and 319's You can always tell a Jetsgo take off. :smile_2:

5GFA

[Lame.]

It's when they DON'T make that beautiful noise, that you have a problem.......... :grin:

Nothing like the roar of JT8Ds. :wink_2:

[swissnews]

I have a srong feeling you're changing the Boeing 737-200 of AC,ZIP and WestJet with Jetsgo's QUIET MD-83s :grin: ...

[Lame.]

IF you mean me, I don't understand? :confus_2:

They are all JT8Ds. :confus_2:

[swissnews]

Lame, you're absolutely right :wink_2: (yes, they are all JT8D's but different types, in case of the MD-80 newer, more efficient and better than those on the 732), I ment user 5GFA in my post :tongue_2:

[YYZFA]

I plane spotting and trust me the old folks make noise (DC-9 /B-727/ B-737-200) but MD 83's too. :tongue_2:

I also like to see these black fuel marks in the sky from the engines...

Having flown on MD 83, being FWD is really quiet :smile_2:.

[Lame.]

You should try sitting in the rear rows of an MD80. :frown_2:

Then you would not say it was quiet. :wink_2:

Whether you are talking about the JT8D-1 or the 200 series in the MD80, they are all pretty noisy. :grin:

[YYZFA]

Yes it is the same as seating on a DC9 AFT. I did fly AFT on a DC-9 and of course working on my fav L-1011's in the aft galley and we can't even hear the galley gossips! LOL! :grin:

[Lame.]

Well the DC9 is even worse, at least the MD80 has engine synch.

Although I love the DC9/MD80, one of the worst flights I have ever had was in a DC9. :frown_2:

Seated in one of the last rows, and the engines were out of synch for the whole flight. :frown_2:

[ATpilot]

AirTan Airways is a low cost carrier in the U.S. and we fly 75 B-717s. I love the 717 and having flown the DC9 it is a terrific improvement. While the airframe is definitely part of the DC9/MD80 family almost every system is modernized. We regularly see fuel burns of 4,600 pph in cruise at moderately heavy weights (~105,000 - 110,000 pounds). It's quiet (stage 4), and does a nice job at autolands. It has a great cockpit which I'm told is derived from and very similar to the MD-11.

I don't know much about the 737NG and even less about the A320 but we will start taking delivery of our first of 100 737-700 and 800s in June 2004. We are buying them to expand our longer segments. In my opinion the 717 would have been ok for longer segments (we currently ues it for segments up to ~1,500 nm) but Boeing showed little interest in streching it or adding and aux fuel tank. There are probably many reasons for this but one obvious one is that it would compete with their 737-700.

Anyway, I love the B717 and plan to stay on it as long as possible.

[dbrownie]

[QUOTE]
Well the DC9 is even worse, at least the MD80 has engine synch.

The DC-9 50 series has engine sync. The others should have
pilots who know how! It is hard to sync with intermix
engines.
Dave B
NWA

[Lame.]

We have only ever had DC9-30s in Australia, which do not have synch, and MD80s which do. :grin:

What do you mean by intermix engines? :confus_2:

[YULWJ]

I would guess who would mean JT8 diffrent dash engines -17,-17, -19. I don't think you mix -9's with those however, correct me if I'm wrong.You can also have throttle stagger when those engines are intermixed, and I think it is allowed as per the AMM.

[Lame.]

That is why I didn't know what he meant.

We never mix them in Australia.

[YULWJ]

I never worked on DC-9's enough to do an engine change or see this on those particular ac's, but working on the 727's at cargo companies it was common place.Air Canada operated DC-9's for a long time, I will try to find out if they did on their aircraft.