History of Prototype Jetliners

[Studley]

Here's a bit of aviation history for you, with some business lessons thrown in. I wondered about this one day, then did some research on it.

If you notice, Boeing has always "saved" or "kept" the prototypes of its jetliners and displays many of the retired models in aviation museums in this country.

But you don't see any of the Douglas prototypes in museums. Why did they not "save" or "keep" their prototypes?

The answer: While Boeing was developing the 367-80, Douglas was refining the DC-7 into the final intercontinental variant, the "Seven Seas" (DC-7C). Douglas had enjoyed a large part of the market share in the airline passenger transportation business, and the DC-7 was the major reason. However, by the time Donald Douglas realized the public's growing fascination with jetliners, it was too late.

This late realization would surreptitiously eventually mark the beginning of the end for his company.

In order to make up for lost time, his first jetliner, the DC-8, was manufactured as a production model, to be sold to the airlines after certification and testing were complete.

Most of the DC-8's development was done "on paper", while Boeing, enjoyng a sizeable head start in the American jetliner market, could afford to take the time to build working prototypes that could also be displayed for potential buyers both here and abroad.

They could also keep the prototypes and use them for testing to improve the design. Meanwhile, Douglas needed to sell as many aircraft as possible to get cash moving in to them, and this included the prototypes and test aircraft.

This same strategy was applied to every new variant of the type, and was also applied to the future DC-9, DC-10, MD-80, and MD-11 models.

So, where are the prototypes?

The DC-8 prototype sits in Marana, AZ at present, almost merely a shell of its former self, in the colors of Aeromexico, the final operator of the ship, but registered to Fine Air, with its original identification of N8008D.

There are three examples that have been preserved, however (including one in Los Angeles, at the Museum of Science and Industry).

DC-9 # 001 (original registration N9DC) is registered to Viscount Air Service, but sits in Sherman, TX at last count.

Two of the three MD-80 prototypes were written off in certification incidents, and the third (original registration N980DC) was scrapped in Sherman, TX in 1994, after its final use as an UHB (Ultra-High-Bypass) jet engine testbed and demonstrator.

DC-10 #001 (original registration N10DC), after enjoying a long career with AA and FedEx, was scrapped at Goodyear, AZ.

MD-11 #001 (original registration N111MD) currently flies for FedEx, registered N601FE.

There is an exception, albeit indirectly: What was the MD-95 prototype is now the prototype of the Boeing 717, renamed after Boeing purchased McDonnell-Douglas. Registered N717XA, it is the only "saved" or "kept" prototype of an original Douglas jetliner design.

[Paddles_up]

In reply to:<hr />
The DC-8 prototype sits in Marana, AZ


Just a little bit of history on Mirana. The airfield was originally the property of the CIA. It was a classified and restricted area at one time!
The former CIA hangar is now used by Evergreen International Airlines for the maintenance hangar. They have been refered to as the "CIA Airlines".
When I worked for them, we did ALL kinds of classified operations!
&lt; she whispers...this is classified information...you didn't hear it from me!&gt;

[jetstar]

Anyone know where the Concorde prototypes are? I know one for definate is in the UK, possibly two. Want to know where?!

A few years ago, I read in Flight International about NASA doing some tests with Boeing on a leased Russian Tupolev 'Concordeski' - wonder what that is doing now and where?!

[Studley]

Jetstar, the following link will give you the information you need.

Commercial Jet Aircraft Census (http://www.bird.ch/bharms/asr_sh00.htm)

From what's listed there, the British prototype and the one British pre-production aircraft are in museums in the UK.

[Studley]

Here's the link to the NASA page outlining the TU-144 research.

TU-144 Research (http://www.dfrc.nasa.gov/Research/TU-144/index.html)

[jetstar]

Hehe, I was seeing how many knew about the concorde lol
The TU stuff though is great! I have bee ntrying to find it for agggggges!! Cheers Studely! :cool_2:

[Studley]

In reply to:<hr />
Hehe, I was seeing how many knew about the concorde lol



Sure you were!!!! Hehehe - many more people than you think! :grin: :wink_2:

Do a search on Yahoo. Use TU-144 as the topic, and you'll get a lot of sites on it, in many languages. :smile_2:

[Mystere IV A]

In reply to:<hr />
Anyone know where the Concorde prototypes are? I know one for definate is in the UK, possibly two. Want to know where?!


Well here it goes :
There was 2 prototypes of Concorde and 2 pre-serie aircraft.
All four are preserved.
- 1st prototype 001 F-WTSS in France at Le Musée de l'Air et de l'Espace at Le Bourget,
- 2nd prototype 002 G-BSST in England at Royal Naval Air Station Yeovilton, Sommerset,
- 1st pre-production 01 G-AXDN in England at the Imperial War Museum , Duxford, Cambridgeshire,
- 2nd pre-production 02 F-WTSA in France at Orly airport by Athis-Paray aviation Delta museum,
- 1st French production 201 F-WTSB in France in Toulouse outside EADS headquarters.

here are the preserved Concorde as far as I know.

Fly High :windsock:
:pilot_2:

[jetstar]

Here (http://www.concordesst.com/02/02detail.html) are some detail pics of the prototype French Concordes.

G-BSST may be at Filton aerodrome in Bristol, home of BAe... as you drive along the M5 motorway you can see a Concorde, but it may simply be a 'mock up'

The first British production was pressed into service by BA in the 90's.

A couple of impressive BA facts....
8th November 1986
First round the world flight by a British Airways Concorde - covering 28,238 miles in 29 hours 59 minutes

7th February 1996
Concorde G-BOAD crosses the Atlantic between New York and London in a new record flight time of 2 hours, 52 minutes and 59 seconds.

[Wizguy]

I heard from the TV about the history of supersonic airplane! I didn't know that the Russian man (I forgot his name because i'm not familiar with the Russian name) was the first to design the triangle wings with the fuselage! He designed it on the blue print! Later, someone spied them and then sent them to France!! The France aircraft manufacture studied it and then built it quickly!!

[Mystere IV A]

In reply to:<hr />
Wizguy wrote :
Russian man (I forgot his name because i'm not familiar with the Russian name) was the first to design the triangle wings with the fuselage! He designed it on the blue print! Later, someone spied them and then sent them to France!! The France aircraft manufacture studied it and then built it quickly!!



Sorry but I cant agree with this as the first delta wing was designed in France, and here is the story about it :

While he was working at the research &amp; design office of Romulus Bratu, Roland Payen filled a patent application with his friend Robert Sauvage, regarding a strange airplane having a big ogive wing with front empennage. Roland Payen just invented the Delta wing, term wrongly used, the year before, by German Alexander Lippisch for his first tailness plane.
In 1933, was drawn the Pa-100 ( PA-100 scale model (http://museedelta.free.fr/payen/maquettepa100vues.htm) ), racer aircraft intended to participate at the prestigious "Coupe Deutsch de la Meurthe": but without finances, Roland Payen went to see Suzanne Deutsch de la Meurthe, the daughter of the past sponsor.This Lady, touched by the trust of her young visitor, gave him a check of 5 000 FRF of the time.
With this succes, the father of Payen, manager in a big store in Paris, give his son, now considered, an amount of 50 000 FRF which will allow the building of the first « flying arrow ». While the beautiful bird was taking shape, he received visit of engineer André Herbemont, designer of the Blériot-SPAD biplane since 1917, with engine manufacturer Emile Régnier. Herbemont, seeing the futurist look of the Pa-100, sniggered: « Is that your bird ? Where is the front ? ». Émile Régnier, impressed by the soothsayer's judgment, refused to lend the online engine planned and Payen had to make with a big Gnome-Rhône star engine with seven cylinders forbiden for the Coupe Deutsch.
The patent becoming public after WW II, Marcel Bloch, renamed Marcel Dassault, used it to build the first Mirage prototype.
But Roland Payen, had his PA-49 Katy, a jet delta airplane ( Picture of the PA-49 Katy (http://museedelta.free.fr/images/pa_49_katy_34.jpg) ), flown couple of year (DEC 16, 1953) before the first Mirage (JUN 26, 1955), and actually was the first delta jet to fly in France !

Fly High :windsock:
:pilot_2:

[Mystere IV A]

Here is a summary of the first 34 delta-wing aircraft that flew in the world, driving to Concorde :

- 17 APR 1935 : PAYEN Pa 100, FRANCE, racer, pilot J. MEUNIER
- 18 OCT 1941 : PAYEN Pa 22, FRANCE, Experimental, pilot J. CHARPENTIER
- 18 SEP 1948 : CONVAIR 7002, USA, Experimental, pilot SHANNON
- 06 SEP 1950 : AVRO 707 B, Great Britain, Experimental
- 10 OCT 1950 : BOULTON Paul II, Great Britain, Experimental
- 23 JAN 1951 : DOUGLAS XF4DI, USA, interceptor
- 12 FEB 1951 : FAIREY F.DI, Great Britain, Experimental with empennage
- .. JUL 1951 : AVRO 707 A, Great Britain, Experimental
- 26 NOV 1951 : GLOSTER Javelin, Great Britain, all weather fighter
- .. JAN 1952 : SAAB 210, Sweden, Experimental
- 30 AUG 1952 : AVRO 698 Vulcan, Great Britain, Bomber, pilot R. FALK
- 20 FEB 1953 : AVRO 707 C, Great Britain, twin seater trainer
- 02 JUL 1953 : BOULTON Paul III A, Great Britain, Experimental
- 16 DEC 1953 : PAYEN Pa 49 Katy, FRANCE, Experimental, pilot A. OCHSENBEIN
- 15 JAN 1954 : NORD Gerfaut, FRANCE, Experaimental wit empennage, pilot A. TURCAT
- 06 OCT 1954 : FAIREY FD 2, Great britain, interceptor
- 20 OCT 1954 : CONVAIR F 102 A, USA, interceptor
- 26 JUN 1955 : DASSAULT Mirage I, FRANCE, interceptor, pilot R. GLAVANI
- 20 SEP 1955 : NORD Griffon, FRANCE, Interceptor, pilot A. TURCAT
- 25 OCT 1955 : SAAB DRAKEN, Sweden, Interceptor
- 20 APR 1956 : SE 212 Durandal, FRANCE, Interceptor, pilot Tito MAULANDI
- 17 NOV 1956 : DASSAULT Mirage 3 01, FRANCE, Interceptor, pilot Roland GLAVANI
- 11 NOV 1956 : CONVAIR Hustler XB 58, USA, Bomber, pilot B.A. ERICKSON
- 25 MAR 1958 : AVRO Canada Cf 105, Canada, Interceptor, pilot Jan ZURAKOWSKI
- 26 may 1958 : SHORT SCI, Great Britain, Experimental V.T.O.L.
- 17 JUN 1959 : DASSAULT Mirage 4, FRANCE, Bomber, pilot Roland GLAVANI
- 13 OCT 1962 : DASSAULT Mirage III V Balzac, FRANCE, Experimental V.T.O.L., pilot R. BIGAN
- 11 JUN 1963 : PAYEN Pa 61, FRANCE, Tourism, Pilot PETIT
- 21 SEP 1964 : NORTH AMERICAN XB 70, USA, Bomber, pilot A. S. WHITE
- 08 FEB 1967 : SAAB VIGGEN, Sweden, Interceptor
- 01 DEC 1968 : TUPOLEV 144, USSR, Transport
- 02 MAR 1969 : CONCORDE, FRANCE - Great Britain, Transport SST 001, pilot André TURCAT
- 10 JAN 1973 : CONCORDE, FRANCE - Great Britain, Transport SST 02, pilot J. FRANCHI


Fly High :windsock:
:pilot_2:

[Studley]

I had always thought that France pioneered delta-wing technology.

I do have a question, mystere: Where on that list are the Convair F-106A Delta Dart (one of my favorites), and the Convair XF2Y-1 Sea Dart, the only supersonic amphibian aircraft?

[Docent75]

Very impressive. We may need a definition of Delta wing. The Northrop flying wings, the Gothe 234, and the Chance Vought F7U can be considered "shallow deltas". I will be skiing for a couple of weeks, but will pick this up when I can check the references.

[Paddles_up]

To be honest folks.....the French were the FIRST pioneers of avaition. The first pioneers were brothers. Can anyone name the brothers and the type of craft?

(hint: this was before fixed wing flight) :windsock:

[jetstar]

Ahh, les Freres Voisin?! Charles et Gabriel?
Floatplanes and gliders?
:smile_2:

[Mystere IV A]

In reply to:<hr />
I had always thought that France pioneered delta-wing technology.

I do have a question, mystere: Where on that list are the Convair F-106A Delta Dart (one of my favorites), and the Convair XF2Y-1 Sea Dart, the only supersonic amphibian aircraft?



Well Stud, I just quoted the "first", if I may say so, of each countries (USA, France, Great-Britain, and former USSR for the Tu-144).
And F-102 was before F-106, that's why I didn't quoted it ...., sorry !
I'll have a look in my files and revert you about the Convair F-106 Delta Dart and the XF2Y-1 Sea Dart.

Fly High :windsock:
:pilot_2:

[Mystere IV A]

Well that happened back on November 21st 1783, for the first "free" flight, as the first attempt was a captive one on October 15th, the same year ....

Just a hint for you people .... to find out .... :smile_2:

Am I right 'spatcher ?

Fly High :windsock:
:pilot_2:

[Paddles_up]

In reply to:<hr />
Am I right 'spatcher



Yes, mystere you are "on the right track"...or should I say "jetstream"?! :windsock:

[Mystere IV A]

In reply to:<hr />
DXVixen wrote :
Yes, mystere you are "on the right track"...or should I say "jetstream"?!



:grin: :grin:
10x 'spatcher ..... :cool_2:

So now let see what our "friends" will find with my "hint" .... :smile_2:

Fly High :windsock:
:pilot_2:

[Mystere IV A]

In reply to:<hr />
Studley wrote :
Where on that list are the Convair F-106A Delta Dart (one of my favorites) ...



Here is a little summary about the Convair F-106 Delta Dagger's history :

At the beginning, the F-106 was a new version of the F-102 Delta Dagger interceptor, the F-102B, meeting the USAF requirement for the "Ultimate Interceptor". But structural changes and needs of the USAF were so much modified that a new aircraft was born: the F-106 Delta Dart. Modifications were concerning little the delta wing. On the other hand, fuselage was completely redesigned and new landing gears were set up. The aircraft was then capable to intercept targets flying at Mach 2 and at 70 000 feet (21 000 meters). They could be fitted with guided missiles, which were at that time still under development. However, ground controllers could automatically guide aircraft to their targets. This system was able from take-off to guide the aircraft to the best interception point to "meet" the target, to fire, and come back to the base. All pilot has to do then was to land the plane.
First flight of the prototype was on September 26th 1956. Soon they discover the aircraft was having poor performance and was facing electronic problems. Project was about to be abandoned. But changes on the airframe and upgrades on electronic drove the aircraft to enter active duty in June 1958 in Aerospace &amp; Defence Command till retirement in 1980. Last f-106 was retired from USAF' active duty in 1988.

I am still working on the XF2Y-1, and will post later ....

Fly High :windsock:
:pilot_2:

[Mystere IV A]

In reply to:<hr />
Studley wrote :
and the Convair XF2Y-1 Sea Dart, the only supersonic amphibian aircraft?



Here is a little summary of the XF2Y-1 Sea Dart's history :

This seaplane was having a delta wing, a big tail, air intakes were on the upper part of the fuselage to avoid water ingestion. Fuselage was bulkheaded, and cockpit was having two little windows on side, separated by a central cheek piece that was hindering front visibility. Skis were fitting in fuselage sides. They were used for take-off and sea-landing and retracted during initial phase, in intermediate position as jet engine thrust was increasing (in between 9 and 50 mph (15 and 80 kmh), then fully deployed until take off as 145 mph (230 kmh).
Sea Dart was developed for the US Navy. Fighter equipped with retractable hydroskis, she was also the first seaplane with a delta wing able to reach Mach 1. First sortie of the XF2Y prototype was made in San Diego bay in December 1952. It was followed by long series of tests, and first flight occurred on May 09th 1953. Program went on with YF2Y that was modified in the aft fuselage to accommodate new engines J46 with afterburners. On August 3rd 1954, the plane went over Mach 1 after a little dive, but it was destroyed in an accident in November 1954. Three other aircraft were built and researches went on with single or double skis. Problem of vibration at take-off were never solved and the project was abandoned in 1956.

Fly High :windsock:
:pilot_2:

[Archer]

Les freres Montgolfier naturellement!!

Type of craft: the hot air balloon (although I'm sure they had a more interesting name for it in those days, can't be bothered to look it up right now. Mystere?)

You should all know this guys! Basic aviation history! :wink_2:

[Archer]

And to further the story of what happens to prototype jetliners, here's another interesting tale:
Vickers VC10 prototype (http://home.planet.nl/~hiemi003/Data\Individual\GARTA.html)

[Docent75]

"Jetliners" Let's see. There was a fluid passing through a nozzle, OK. Etinne and Joseph Montogolfier were paper makers. They made the first aircraft, a hot air balloon.

Who was the first person killed in an aircraft accident, and how is that person honored in modern flight.?

[Paddles_up]

In reply to:<hr />
You should all know this guys! Basic aviation history!



Archer you are sooo right!

Your answer was "right on" too!

One side note too: The baloon was the FIRST aircraft taken into battle. It was used to drop bombs over Europe, BEFORE the fix winged aircraft! However, since they were a moving target. The baloonist usually ended up on a suicide mission.
&lt;Up, up and away&gt;

[Docent75]

We gone from M1+ to unguided ballons. There are strange minds at work here. Balloons were used for observation in the Nepolanic wars, but I don’t know the details. In the American War they were used without imagine, drama, or results. Can you point me to information on who was killed and when before WW1?

The Japanese used hydrogen balloons as intercontinental weapons in WW2. They were launched into the jet stream with small bombs, an altitude control device, and timer. They successfully crossed the Pacific, but are not credited with starting any fires. One or two people were killed.