Pilferage Crackdown

[Fly_Boy_YUL]

FYI, Just overheard in YYZ Comm Center today that AC Security is looking for people taking stuff off the aircraft. Word was that AC Security went through the garbage of a crew on an international layover AFTER they checked out... finding empty pop cans, water bottles and other "AC property".

Looks like they are trying (again) to make some examples out of people.

[sushiseal]

OK, the last I heard it paid to be careful on domestic layovers, but I figured it would only be a matter of time b4 int. layovers started getting targeted as well.

I also have a question: are we or are we not allowed to bring our crew snacks or anything else that is specifically intended for us to consume onboard (including crew water), with us on our layovers? If the answer is "yes we are", then naturally it would result in things such as plastic snack boxes or empty H20 bottles being left in our rooms after check-out; and those doing the checking should be aware of what's allowed to be taken with us b4 pointing any fingers...

Otherwise, if even our unfinished snacks are considered part of "off-limits waste", then I guess we have our answer.

[JetBoy76]

It happened in Paris, after the crew checked out of their rooms, Security came and went trough the garbage and took pictures.
Management marked the pop cans here in Canada, and bottles of alcohol, so that way they know what was taken from the aircraft.
Is not worth it, look at it this way, as you guys know I only do New Yorks(as long as I can hold them)I buy a gallon of water in any Deli(almost 4 liters)for only $3 US, and they sell Wine and Spirits in some of the Supermarkets close to the new Hotel, is not that expensive, don't give the Company a chance to make your life Hell(any more than they already have)
HAPPY AND SAFE FLYING TO ALL :windsock:

[JetBoy76]

Here are the actual letters...


"I called YUL where the crew originated from to confirm rumours, and it's true. The pairing originated on the 29Dec. The crew was searched by French customs. On checking out of their room, Corporate Security entered the rooms with the hotel security, searched the garbage and took photos of the cans they found inside. Apparently prior to the flight, the company went to Cara and had all the cans marked that were going on the flight.

Anyhow, the long and the short of it is that 6 out the ten crew members are now facing investigation pending discharge. So the zero tolerance policy is in full effect, it's okay to eat on board, but don't take ANYTHING off the flight."

This is a Big Brother 'heads up' from the pilot's union. The company may
have searched your layover room for Air Canada stuff off the plane.

January 9th, 2003

URGENT: PLEASE TAKE NOTE

The Association has been made aware of an investigation by Air Canada
Corporate Security into violations of the Company's "Theft, Fraud, Pilferage
and Misuse of Company Property and Information" policy. The investigation,
led by Corporate Security, included searching the hotel rooms of crewmembers
on a layover, after they had checked out of their rooms. In this particular
case, an item or items were found in the waste-basket and follow-up
interviews with crewmembers are being scheduled.

I have grave concerns about the Company's handling of this issue and I
deplore the abusive techniques used by Corporate Security in its
investigation. I expressed those concerns to the Senior Director of Flight
Operations and, while these discussions are not yet complete, I feel
compelled to bring this information to the attention of the pilots and ask
that you govern yourselves accordingly when checking out of hotel rooms.

Further information will be provided when it becomes available.

Captain Xxxxx Xxxxxxxxxxxx
MEC Chair

HAPPY AND SAFE FLYING TO ALL :windsock:

[sushiseal]

Hi JB:

Yes, like many other F/As out there, I've always preferred the "better safe than sorry" mentality when it comes to making decisions like that. It's just that the issue of crew meals/snacks seemed to be a grey area for me and I was wondering if anybody out there had a firm answer on it...

As for the incident you mentioned, looking back now I think it's ironic that I noticed something unusual when I was checking out of my room at the same hotel last summer. One of the cleaning ladies was going around with her cart with the supplies of fresh linen/towels as well as the big black garbage bag where normally the waste basket contents are emptied into. She was a few doors down, when I noticed that she had put an empty OJ container (the ones with the foil covers) on top of the cart instead of throwing it into the trash as would normally be the case. Anyhow, it was unusual enough that it caught my eye, and I couldn't help but think it was being saved as "evidence" of some sort with the room number probably being taken note of.... :ooo:

I'd heard through the grapevine that the company does a stricter-than usual sweep for pilferage every few years, so I figure it's definitely not worth it to be called into the office for something like this.

P.S. - Thanks 4 the "heads-up"!

[Proudly_AC]

That's ridiculous! I mean, I can appreciate how the company doesn't want crew members taking alcohol off the aircraft as it is somewhat more expensive for them, but a can or two of pop? Or a bottle of water? Let's get real. How many times have we sat on the ground on board of an aircraft with pax on and while we've been on duty working for quite some tiem, our clocks haven't started ticking since the brakes are still on? A little does go a long way, and I for one think that this is just another way of showing how the company couldn't care less about the happiness of its employees. Crew snacks are crew snacks adn I have the right to eat mine when I so choose. If I leave it on board, do you want to tell me that CARA takes it and recycles it on another flight for another crew?! And then what happens if I fly to TLV where the company claims that I am NOT to leave the hotel for ANY REASON because of safety/security concerns? Do they honestly think I will spend $4 USD for a 1.5L bottle of water? LOL ... come on, expenses on a TLV are good, but not that good! :wink_2: Thanks for the info!!

[Fly_Boy_YUL]

When I was at my "ServiceTraining" this summer I noticed several employees outside (smoking, chatting, etc). It seemed that I saw many of the same faces each time I was outside.

QUESTION: Is this crackdown an In-Flight only program, or are ALL employees under the same scrutiny? I would recommend that every vp/director/manager whatever take a look in his or her back yard too, or maybee it is only the masses of lazy union workers (or just in-flight) that need to be brought in line. Is stealing "COMPANY TIME" under the same scrutiny? Just get a printout of access card use (the card used to get through the gates at HQ for example) and see the times that the card is used to go in and out and in and out and in and out... you get the idea. My guess is that there are a few dozen people at HQ who could (or should) face some serious trouble as well. But I guess that it is much easier to send someone from security to fly out to europe to catch a few crew members with a grand total of say $6.00 of company property. Never mind Joe (or Jasephine) Blow who spends 1/8 of an 8 hour day smoking. If he/she is making $50,000 (average), then that is around $25/hr. Over a year (minus vacation & stats) that comes to about $1,000. Compare to the crew member taking a can of pop or bottle of water per layover (average $2.00). Say this crew member has 10 layovers a month (a VERY busy month) that's $20 a month x 11 months (take away vacation etc) that's $220 in a year.

Hey, I am not suggesting that taking stuff off the aircraft is NOT stealing (by the company's definition). I am saying that if a crackdown on missuse of company resources (time, pop whatever) should be company wide. This just stinks as a jab at Cabin Crew.

Don't get me wrong, I am not "lilly" white. I while cannot condone full scale ripoffs by crew, I have been known to "shop at the red & white" and bring a ginger ale, a milk, or some cream off the aircraft for a layover. I only drink at home (almost to excess) so I don't take booze.

Too bad, looks like sour grapes. What they could not claw back in negotiations they will try to carve by other means.

OR

This a brilliant way to bring the old AC and old CAIL groups together in (if it was possible) more distrust of the "leadership" of this department/airline?

Hmmmmmmm, makes me want to do "more" to serve my(?) company!

[TaleFinn]

This just further reinforces a comment made to me by Bruce Hood, the former Ombudsmen to whom consumers would (and did!) file many a complaint against "The Aggressor Air Canada."

Mr. Hood said to me that he laid the blame for Air Canada's woeful situation squarely at the feet of upper management who "treats employees like liabilities, rather than assets."

This focus infuriates me. Any rumours or indication that other employee groups are being "targeted" as well? How about CARA? How about ramp? Groomers? Maintenance?

Let's keep our noses clean, then snub 'em at this pogrom by management.

[JetBoy76]

Bumping this thread to the top! :cool_2:
HAPPY FLYING :windsock:

[Snackpack]

Just heard from a very reliable source (i.e. from a good friend of one of the busted crewmembers concerned) that this could be a case of a conflict between crewmembers gone wrong. It's a very pitiful state of affairs if people start "ratting on" each other because of conflicts! This nevertheless remains HEARSAY. To make it even more disconcerting, if the version I heard is true, I can say that on at least one occasion I personally saw the alleged tattletale involved leave the a/c with more than he/she possessed when he/she boarded!

The moral of this story: Jetboy is entirely right! Take NOTHING from the a/c. Not your crew snack, not a bottle of water, not even a peanut! It is not worth your job. I know that in many cases in the past, much of what was taken was destined to be waste anyway. Often things were taken for convenience only, not to save a buck, but more likely to save a trip from the crew hotel to the corner store at midnight or 7:00 am. It's time to get away from this mentality folks! Either bring it with you from home, order room service (if possible) or go without. Good luck to all of our colleagues who are apparently facing a trying ordeal due to an alleged personal conflit. What a bloody SHAME! :crazy: :crazy:

[AC DUDE]

I for one think that our expenses are very generous so might as well use it and have nothing to worry about.

[baloo]

Talefin said
"This focus infuriates me. Any rumours or indication that other employee groups are being "targeted" as well? How about CARA? How about ramp? Groomers? Maintenance?"

some guys on the ramp and some Maintenance have been fired for taking stuff that was unused but destined for the garbage off the plane.

[pillow_pusher]

ok, i know this may sound ridiculous, but no more ridiculous than a group of people going through a flight attendant's garbage... our company does the same thing, although i haven't heard about them taking it to this extreme.

wouldn't it be impossible to prove that you took something off the aircraft? "oh, those cans of pop? yeah, well, i picked up one of the passengers off the flight, and he arrived at my hotel with them."

it seems the only way they could prove it is by searching you immediately as you disembark. even then, there are ways around it. " oh my goodness! what are those minis doing in my bag! i NEVER put them there. some passenger must have put them in there by mistake!"

the company would get so sick of the wrongful dismissal charges, they'd give up.

[Was_Moeman]

Good points. It might also get the company moving on giving us some secure stowage for our luggage and stuff. Who knows what could be put in your bag(or removed)?

[pillow_pusher]

exactly. they expect you do do a full service, attend to passengers, and have eyes on your ass.

[Was_Moeman]

Well, I am a butt man :grin: .

[Eagle Eye]

Me too! :grin: :grin:

[Peanut]

Not that I advocate stealing from the company, however,
I wonder if they'll catch on when all flight attendants have thermoses and flasks in their crew luggage??? To every problem there is a solution... :wink_2:

[pillow_pusher]

don't get me wrong; i too am NOT advocating stealing from the company.

[madDASH]

You know, I wonder if they are doing it to us as well. Although I haven't heard any stories like yours, we did receive a memo that was VERY specific about taking stuff off the aircraft on layovers and it was quite threatening. God, would they actually waste their time to go to Timmins or Philly to search my garbage for empty creamer containers(yes they did actually tell us NOT to take so much as a creamer for our coffee in the morning)? LOL

[madDASH]

You know, I wonder if they are doing it to us as well. Although I haven't heard any stories like yours, we did receive a memo that was VERY specific about taking stuff off the aircraft on layovers and it was quit threatening. God, would they actually waste their time to go to Timmins or Philly to search my garbage for empty creamer containers? LOL

[Snackpack]

I am not advocating stealing, either. In fact, I think there would be less pilferage if the Company had regular random bag checks instead of having a zero tolerance policy that is enforced once every so many years. Being very lenient with respect to a policy like this can encourage people to start thinking that maybe taking waste (i.e. unused creamers) would be ok. Then turning around and going through hotel garbage, finding an empty bottle of crew water and firing them, well, I find that a little drastic.

Moreover, pilfering would practicaly disappear if our airline had a crew purchase program as some European airlines do. You want water, juice, milk, minis, etc. for your layover? You buy it on board (at cost) and keep your receipt in case airline security decides to check your bags. There are limits and rules which are clearly defined and work for both the employees and the companies.

I personally like to get out of the hotel for a little fresh air and shopping for those essential items during my layovers, but, hypothetically, after a day of up and downs with no time to eat or no food on board, arriving late at the crew hotel without a mini-bar and room service closed, I can imagine a flight attendant who has brought cereal from home not wanting to eat dry cornflakes!

[JetBoy76]

DITTO!
I do not advocate stealing, but one thing is for sure, management is not here to be on our side, they will take any chance to run you to the ground :frown_2:
So, the moral is.... <font color="black"> Don't give managers the joy, and satisfaction to give you hell </font color> is not worth it, besides, do you really want to have those nasty sesame crackers with your Gin&amp;Tonics? :wink_2:
HAPPY FLYING TO YOU ALL :windsock:

[Fly_Boy_YUL]

Spoke to someone who was involved with the Swissair F/A exchange...

On Swissair, snacks (cup a soup, fruit, softdrinks, cookies, etc) are boarded for the crew. The snacks can be eaten at any time or taken off the aircraft. This supply was not "gutted" by deplaining crews, rather they took waht they needed. Go figure, a company that thought about its employees, and understood their hectic work schedule and recognized their needs after their day while on layover. Sure they went bankrupt... but I do not think that this was the cause.

Think of it, how often have you been boarded a meal or snack that you had no time to eat, or was for you to eat at some strange time. What about the days that are so long that you just do not have the energy to go out to eat after arriving at the hotel? Or those cycles that have your internal clocks so wound up that you wake up at 0200 (local) looking for something to tide you over?

Sound like a nice step in the right direction for AC to win some MUCH needed respect from crews. Is there a cost? Sure, why not look into it? Perhaps for the next contract, or perhaps some bright light in HQ could bring it up...

Knowing that my work was appreciated and that my health/well being was respected would go far to make me a happier employee. And a happy employee can only rub off with happier fellow employees and (can you believe it) happier customers.

Only a thought.

[sushiseal]

As FlyBoyYUL mentioned, let's face it... we have to take care of our health by eating when we're hungry and there are times when the stores are all closed and so is room service. It's also not possible to always bring something from home either.

I'd feel much better knowing that we were taken care of by either an onboard crew purchase program or rules that ensure we're not penalized for bringing crew provisions with us. It's never a nice feeling going to work knowing that the company is "out to get you", instead of looking out for your basic needs...

[pillow_pusher]

these are really good points. in many cases, it isn't possible to purchase food/drink upon arrival. when you arrive in europe first thing in the morning, most shops are not open. likewise, when you arrive in the carribbean around midnight, it it not possible to get provisions. so, would it be such a crime to want to have a bottle of water next to your bed for when you wake up? or perhaps some cheese &amp; crackers? or a nice glass of merlot? (just kidding)

perhaps it's time airline management (broad general statement here) started treating us less like criminials and more like people.

[flyingyyz]

Has it been confirmed the suspensions werre for water? I have not heard that. Until themn, we should assume "crew water" is for consumtion by the crew onboard. We did get it, after all, after a long battle defending our rights to other than aircraft tap water. It did not take long for crew water to become layover water, but as previously posted, as long as expenses are paid, I don't think the company feels too sorry for us. After all, the ones searching our garbage cans probably have to submit paper receipts for the trips to search. And every other employee group fends for themselves, even when airport facilities are closed on their shifts. If the company wants to insist on onboard consumption, we might have to make a shift and argue that we can layover in hotels only with 24 hour room service. Many have it, and our expenses are calculated on the cost usually of eating at our hotels. I seem to remember in cabin personnel meetings in the past they told us taking off our snacks was okay, but managers have changed many times over since then. Maybe CUPE can get it clarified for us and issue a bulletin.

[brownbob]

Hi Canadians,here at the WORLDS FAV if you have a receipt your covered,if not your OUT :blush:Thats it,no questions asked your out,and believe me its happening.fly and shop safeBB :wink_2:

[Was_Moeman]

This is also a strong reminder for us all that we have to take the time to care for ourselves. If you haven't had time to eat or drink for hours, stop what you're doing, take a break , and eat. The passengers can wait or the flight can wait. If you haven't had a meal break and the pairing has no breaks built in, tell STOC you're going for food and will board when you've had your break. The company could care less about us. We're machines to them. If they don't want us taking our crew water or food to the hotel, we have to make a point and take the time we need to consume it onboard. If no food is boarded on a long day with no breaks, take one. There are basic human rights issues that have to be dealt with sometimes. Whether the company believes we're humans or not isn't really relevant. We have to take care of ourselves because they won't do it for us. If you have to delay boarding so you can stop to eat a sandwich, so be it. If you have to delay the second service because you haven't had a meal break yet, so be it. If we took care of ourselves a little better by doing these little things, we wouldn't feel the need to take anything to our rooms.

Take your own water bottle to be filled on board. Bring your own food for the hotel. Bring a flask for...just kidding :wink_2: . Take care of yourselves.

Just a thought.

[madDASH]

I don't agree with it either. pre merger when we used to serve Starbucks onboard, I know of FAs who used to ask for extra packs intentionally to take them home and they didn't give a darn which of their coworkers saw them do it! Pretty sad. It would be nice if they loaded some stuff for us as part of a meal that we could take with us or just what we want but unfortunately we gave up crew meals for money seeing as how most of our flts are under 2hrs. Thats something for us to address during our next round of bargaining. I agree with moeman, take care of yourself first, then water the pax.

[*KiKi*]

Last September, the company came out with a memo indicating that they will be cracking down. To this a lot of questions were asked.

From the CIC, back in November (Question and Answer section):

Q. I TAKE NOTE OF THE CURRENT CAMPAIGN AGAINST PILFERING AND THEFT. A FEW YEARS AGO A NOTE WAS PUT OUT ABOUT WHAT WE COULD TAKE OFF THE AIRCRAFT. FOR THIS CURRENT CAMPAIGN COULD YOU PLEASE CONFIRM THAT PILOTS ARE ALLOWED TO TAKE:
1) THE FRUIT BASKET; 2) ONE OPENED BOTTLE OF WATER; 3) OUR OWN SNACK PACK (SS) OFF THE AIRCRAFT WITH US.
November 11, 2002

A. FROM CORPORATE SECURITY:
CREWS ARE ALLOWED TO REMOVE AN OPENED BOTTLE OF WATER THAT WAS PROVIDED FOR THEIR USE AND, WHERE PERMITTED BY CUSTOMS/AGRICULTURAL REGULATIONS OF THE ENTERED COUNTRY, ITEMS FROM THE FRUIT BASKET, SNACK PACK OR CREW MEALS PROVIDED. FOR INSTANCE, AGRICULTURE CANADA ADVISE THAT ALL TROPICAL FRUITS ARE ACCEPTABLE BUT FRUITS THAT CAN BE GROWN IN CANADA WILL NOT BE ALLOWED. FRUITS THAT ARE PLACED ON THE AIRCRAFT PRIOR TO DEPARTING CANADA, THEN RETURNED ON THE SAME AIRCRAFT, WILL NOT BE ACCEPTED BACK INTO CANADA (THEY ARE NOT TO LEAVE THE AIRCRAFT, THEY ARE TO BE DISPOSED OF). CREWS OWN SNACKS WILL BE ALLOWED INTO CANADA.

[Peanut]

Can we assume that the FAs have a me too clause. I mean it wouldn't make sense that the pilots CAN take those items off and FAs CAN'T....

I had heard from a rampy that Corporate security had "booby trapped" certain aircraft trolleys with a certain powder that only showed up under infrared light. They were checked after grooming the aircraft, and if powder traces showed up under infrared, they were in deep doodoo.

I wonder what the company would think when I serve hot drinks to the frozen ground crew in Edmonton who shows up to close the door, or cold drinks to the dehydrated security guards who watch the aircraft off the gate under a blazing sun in Puerto Vaillarta... :smile_2:

[*KiKi*]

Yes.

The answer from Corporate Security indicates Crews (all crews, not just pilots). You are allowed to take off what ever was provided to you, that you had not consumed during the flight (due to time constraints).

[brownbob]

Hey Canadians,i dont know what our industry is coming to :confus_2:here at the WORLDS FAV its just the same,if your found with anything with the company name on it your for the high jump,unless you have a receipt.We are allowed to take off our crew refreshments(depending ofcourse where you are flying to).As regards to Peanuts comment about giving refreshments to ground crew,a colleague gave some of our ground staff a BACON BUTTIE on arrival at LHR,they were suspended,both of them,and there was nearly a walk out(pathetic or what).Ime off to YUL tomorrow,and if our ground staff need a hot drink ime told NO NO NO :shocked:we'll see about that!Watch your backs,thats our new motto,and we are.FLY SAFE,regards BB :cool_2:

[Breeze]

http://makeashorterlink.com/?F15324A13

Ask yourself whether the company has not pilfered from your paycheque, and whether there was an investigation to the effect. Have they paid your per diems out as required according to the contract? Have they not made "mistakes" when it comes to paying out NBG? How much do they owe you now?

For Jazz: Check your monthly blocked credit hours against the total of hours added up on your paycheque.

Brz

[tailwind]

This is all coming from our so called friend that sends is picture on every bulletins.
Now that we have a signed contract with a no-layoff clause how can you reduce your number of employees ? ANSWER: discharge... one word that will be used more frequently then before since they want examples to scare people.
:plane: :windsock:

[Delsey_Dragger]

MY GOD!!!!!!!!! Going through your rubbish bins???????? Are you celebrities? Did it not cost more to GET the security people to Paris than the amount of what they found?? I am not advocating ripping off the company, but however, I believe that your airline has a "Duty of Care" to all it's crew. (Defined as "Duty of Care" in UK Helath &amp; Safety and employment law). Therefore when you are landing in lets say Paris after a 6 or 7 hour flight you are dehydrated DUE to your working conditions. You should at the very least be able to take a bottle of water off the aircraft. As far as VS is concerned we are not allowed to take booze etc off. We are allowed a bottle of water and whatever food from the crew cart. We have a crew purchase scheme for booze (new). I think you guys stay at the same hotel as us in NYC (E42nd St) and I must say that AC should take into account that the hotel shop is both (A) EXPENSIVE! (B) Perpetually closed for lunch. The Deli next door rips of crew left right and centre so also beware there. I am not as I said before, advocating ripping off the company, but surely ACs first concern should be the welfare of it's crew and not sending security guys on jollys all over the world to look through bins.

[dartagnan]

There is a lot of ambiguity as to what you can take off the aircraft (even after all the recent events). For instance on the YUL component website they say you are allowed to take your crew snack(which amount to nothing really) and your crew water. However, In a recent watchdog newsletter we are told that we are not even allowed to take our water. One supervisor in YYZ told me you are not allowed to take water while another told me you are able to take your water. The company should put out a very specific memo as to what we are able to take or not... Especially for the water. The pilots are allowed their crew water but it has to be open and you must drink from it before you can take it off... Another thing, What would constitute crew water? in the crew units we seldom have 1.5L h2o bottle for each and every crew member; if we are allowed to take bottled water which crew member is more entitled to take it off the aircraft... The more senior or the more dehydrated? This is simply ridiculous. It is not too much to ask to get 1.5L H2O bottle for every crew to take off the aircraft. Anyway, until I hear from an official company memo i will try to bring my own whenever possible (Not very convinient on a 3 or 4 day pairing!)

[Peanut]

Let's face it guys, I think what AC really finds offensive is taking beer, wine, and pop. We haven't yet heard of people being disciplined for taking water. Many people don't even hide it, they carry it on the top of their tote bag. There is dehydrated and then there's wanting free liquor....

Hypothetically, let's say you had a maid who lived with you during the week and went home on week ends. The agreement you have struck together entitles her to room and board included. So, during the week she ate whatever you had around...fine no problem. However, before she went home every week end, she helped herself to your beer and wine. I think you may have a little problem with that...no?

[Snackpack]

You do have a point, Peanut.

By the way, has anyone reading this ever taken sick days when you weren't really sick? I suppose that could be construed as ripping off the company, too. Let's see, $50.00 plus per hour times a 15 hour pairing. I wonder how much water, juice, beer or wine you could buy with those bucks. Or is ripping the Company off for $750.00 acceptable whereas the act of taking $2.00 worth of beverages off of the aircraft to the crew hotel falls into a completely different, heinous league? I repeat that I am not condoning stealing from the Company in any way, shape or form, but do let's try to keep things in perspective.

Just looked at the master sched of one of the crewmembers who worked that flight targeted by AC Security (following up a tip from an employee according to the Globe and Mail, Jan 16, 2003). The code for suspension which was there up until today has now been changed to the code for termination. Sad, sad, sad.

[Peanut]

Funny you should bring that up Snackpack,
I was just reading an article where they mentioned that at American Airlines, any given day, 5% of the employees are booked off. Apparently it costs them 1 million per day.
I suppose some things are easier/cheaper to prove than others? (Daily Telegraph, Business News, January 9, 2003)

[Was_Moeman]

Bookoffs are such a dilemma. The company could save a fortune if they gave us some incentive not to use them, like free passes, money, gifts or something, but then we'd be faced with people coming to work sick so they don't use their days and lose the free passes etc. As it is now, if you don't use them you lose them, so you might as well use them up before you retire. Damned if you do...

I hope that we eventually get a SOLO-type bidding system that would allow us to build blocks that better suit our individual lifestyles. How many people do you know that have booked off of a cycle because they had other plans and there were no blocks that worked for them or they couldn't get a switch? Finger bidding too(If you don't know what that is, put your finger over the offensive pairing(s) and voila, nice block!). Commuters that can't get to work for whatever reason and so book off. School. Family obligations. They all have to cost the company a fortune and the main reason is that they build the blocks for us instead of the other way around. It seems like every month I need to go through the hassle of finding a switch because none of the blocks I could hold were perfect for me. I actually go through the trouble of finding a switch, but I'm sure there are many who can't be bothered. SOLO would cure 90% of that and save the company an absolute fortune. It's a win-win, that's for sure.

Speaking of booking off, it's kinda funny when you think about the cost involved because a lot of the costs are the company's own fault. On the one hand, AC wants to lower costs any way they can, yet on the other they're feeding us garbage, not giving us the proper staffing levels to allow us to have a break once in a while so we can eat and have a glass of water, and keeping layover lengths to an absolute minimum while keeping duty days around 12 hours as much as they can. We don't have time to eat and when we do they feed us crap like power packs if anything at all. If there's nothing boarded for us, we eat chips and any other garbage the pax didn't eat. We often have to carry our own food with us but you can't really carry enough fresh food for 3 or 4 days, and if you take a bottle of water or some milk or juice to your room, you're fired for it. Most hotels don't have decent workout facilities and even when they do(if they're open between 10pm and 8am when your layover starts and stops), we don't often have the time or energy to use them. These all contribute to us booking off due to fatigue, injury or sickness which costs the company money and they only have themselves to blame. It would be interesting to see a cost comparison done between keeping us healthier and happier with proper rest periods, decent food given to us more often, bottled water for our own use and subsequently less bookoffs, and treating us like dogs, feeding us garbage and working us as hard as they can but we book off more because we're literally sick and tired or injured. Wouldn't the benefits of treating us better far outweigh the costs? We'd be healthier, happier, less tired and would probably do an even better job onboard than we already do. All good. Hopefully this "Wellness Committee" that is in our new CA will tackle this issue.

Nobody advocates stealing from the company, but hopefully this incident will stir the pot enough to get the two sides talking about changes that will create a healthier environment for all of us onboard.

[dartagnan]

You are of course totally right! How many times have I heard since I joined AC: "If you dont take care of yourself nobody is going to do it for you!" So we try and we do our best with whatever is given to us (or not given in our case). Even when we are lucky enough to get a meal boarded it is full of preservative, flavour enhancers and food colouring. For some reason, it is almost always a meat selection or a casserole containing an unidentified meat source. We never get a low fat alternative such as a vegeterian selection containing tofu or tempeh. If you are lucky enough to get a doctors note to get a special meal boarded you have to drive all the way to the airport in order to put in the request for all the flight legs where you should have something boarded (before the deadline I might add because if you dont... tough). Then, 25% of the time your special meal is not boarded... You try to pay claim but then you have to fight with the company in order to get it (plus it needs to be indicated on the OBR for you to have any chance of getting paid). Sometimes you have actual crew members eating your special meal because it might not have been well marked (yeah right!). Of course in that case you cannot pay claim since it was actually boarded. So why bother? Like Was Moeman said we do our best with what we have and then we get sick and cost the company a bundle. The most succesfull companies invest in their employees in order to offer a better service or product to their customers. It makes sense. Instead of fighting their employees at every opportunities they would be wise to work with them and take care of them... In the long run everyone wins that way!

[Snackpack]

Speaking of news articles, I accidently ran across one recently from April 2001 describing how three Sky Chefs employees allegedly stole hundreds of cases of minis worth USD$1.5 million from a storage room at New York's Kennedy Airport over 16 months. (Airwise news, April 14, 2001). For just three people, that was some major pilfering!

If I do a little quick math, that amount would be the equivalent of approximately 40% of our membership at the top f/a pay category each booking off one 15 hour pairing. Gee, I wonder how many times that happens in a year. Talk about perspective. But I know, those cans in the hotel garbage weren't objectionable because of money alone; it was also the principle of theft. If we had an onboard crew purchase program, those items could have been bought by the crew before deplaning. This whole incident could have been avoided.

Moeman, among the other possible improvements you brought up, maybe there's room for some kind of crew purchase plan in those changes the two sides could talk about that would create a healthier environment for all of us onboard.

And welcome back dartagnan! :windsock:

[Was_Moeman]

Agreed Snackpack. Personally, I'd rather do away with ALL the crew "meals". In my world :wink_2: , we'd purchase or bring from home all of our food. We could deduct from our expenses whatever we purchase from the company, be it booze, snacks or food. We could order our special meals, snacks, etc. ahead of time and they would be boarded for us if they're hot meals or be available for pickup at the Comm center if not(fruit, snacks, etc). If you don't order food, you don't get any, but you get the expenses instead. I don't think it would be that difficult to change the accounting system and perhaps ABBA could accomodate meal requests. We could purchase coupons for booze, pop, milk, water, etc and give them to the I/C for redemption with the bar money. You take what you pay for from the aircraft and it would still be an honor system like today. People could still steal if they really wanted to, but I think there would be way less than there is today.

I know I'm probably dreaming, but I'd like some system like that.

[damo]

Hi all,

Actually the most detrimental thing to happen to us has been the computerization of our working conditions. From the time they started building our pairings with a computer our working conditions has deteriorated inhumanely. All they have to do is program in the parameters of our CA and voila the computer does the rest.

Inititially with people building the pairings we had truly wonderful working conditions. The average domestic duty day was 8-10 hours with the average domestic layover 18-24 hours. All niters were virtually unheard of. Now the computer does not care, day,night, irrelevant, 14 hour domestic duty day with minimum crew rest, efficient use of cabin personnel; 3 in a row, even better.

I cannot remember when this all started but I am hoping the pendulum will start swinging in reverse soon. Some form of humanity has to be factored in. Of course with our new 19 1/2 hour duty day now to be factored in I will not be holding my breath.

Although the computer considers us automatons hopefully some enlightened beings will come along to reevaluate our situation.

As for the pilferage situation, we all know people who abuse this situation. It has been a serious problem for years. I believe the company is using this incident to once and for all bring it to the fore and remind us all the hidden costs in the 'harmless perq' attitude. Unfortunately some of our colleagues will be going through a difficult time as scape goats to make the point. I would not count on all of them getting their jobs back. It has become too public and far reaching for that. If all were to get their jobs back it would definitely send out the wrong message. My heart and sympathy go out to those who are suffering because of an apparent crew conflict. May it open all of our eyes as we move into the chaos inherent in the intermingling over the next year or so.

This is a heads up to all. Keep it clean, safe and above board then you are guaranteed no hassles.

As for the suggestions of Was Moeman and others for some type of solution to our unique working conditions let us hope the new Executive has their ears to the ground and will respond to our needs.

Happy flying to all,

damo

[yulpurser]

Damo,
your assessment of this situation is possibly the most balanced and compassionate that I have read or heard so far. I agree with you whole heartedly, and I hope too that sometime, soon, someone in upper management will look more closely at the unique challenges and changes in our daily working environment these past few years. Mutual respect between Air Canada and its flight attendants seems to be at an all time low: both sides have to take a more conciliatory position and be mindful of each other's goals. I think that communications between the groups could be vastly improved... (but that would be best discussed in another thread...)
Whether we like it or not, we will be going ahead very soon with major changes, all of us, opportunities for conflict will arise more easily, I suspect, for a little while... but let's all remember why we stay in this business...let's evaluate what is worth fighting for- we will need all our energy to deal with just staying on top of thing in this "new Air Canada" environment!

[Was_Moeman]

I just got a reply from headquarters about what you can and can't remove from the aircraft. Apparently In Flight and Flight Ops are reviewing it and they will be issuing a memo ASAP outlining the policy in detail so there is no question in our minds.

As for an onboard purchase program, they didn't rule it out, they just said they would bring it up at the meeting and see where it goes from there. Although it would be tough to police, I think most of us would be happy to pay $0.50 for a coke or juice for our layover instead of $1.50 in the vending machine or $3.00 from room service. I mentioned the quality and quantity of crew food, especially power packs, was lacking and that if they were of better quality and given more often, perhaps even as often as pilots get food(crazy, I know!), we wouldn't be eating as much junk and may end up booking off less due to illness and fatigue. I hope they mean it when they say they are taking our suggestions into consideration.

[Fly_Boy_YUL]

Just heard that one of the pilots from that crew was also found to have an empty "canned alcoholic beverage" in the wast basket in his room. He was quick to say that this was given to him by the In-Charge thereby freeing him of any wrong doing.

He must have assumed that the beverage came from the I/Cs home vs the aircraft.

I have also learned that one of the crew had the most "WILL NOT FLY WITH XXXXX" in Air Canada history last bid!

Congratulations must be in order!

[flying uke]

Hey did anyone notice the artical in the news paper regarding Canadian wine not offered on AIR CANADA. Well what I found interesting, was the reason we don't offer Canadian wine .29 cents.
Yup that wine that Air Canada is all uptight about not taking it off the aircraft is .60 cents (yes .60 cents)a bottle (the same one they charge $5.00 for)and it's .29 cents less than BC wine (.89).
Wonder if they would allow us PURCHASE one at cost for a layover, its much less than a minni bar. :smile_2:
:smirk:I wonder how much for a beer???
Probably less than the one FLY BOY says that the I/C brought from home :smirk:

[Snackpack]

All employees (except one) who were suspended following this sting operation are now back on line. The only two who had any kind of alcoholic beverage containers in their hotel garbage were one cabin crewmember (the only employee who is still suspended pending termination) and one pilot. The pilot is back on line because when the alcohol was given to him he was told that it came from a crewmember's home. The other cabin crewmembers now back on line had either an empty cereal box, empty small water bottles (from 'J'), an empty milk carton, and empty juice/soft drink cans in their trash.

And flying uke, those spirits minis AC sells for CAD $5.00 on board domestic/trans-border flights can be purchased retail in the liquor stores of the highly taxed province of Quebec for exactly half of that...not that I begrudge AC the mark-up for pax consumption.

[Flying_jojo]

Should I ask management if Im allowed to take a sanitary napkin from the plane? What if they search my garbage bin at the hotel and find that...Am I gonna be suspended for too much bleeding!!!!!

Flying_jojo :plane:

[Babeinsky]

According to Our Union Pres. Mr. Di Giulio AND Inflight Mgr. Mr. Donato, the ONLY thing we are allowed to take off the a/c is our POWERPACK. NO bottled water !!( water to be consumed onboard only!!) .
Also.. Union Pres said should Security/ AC ask to search your suitcase, demand to see their SEARCH WARRANT..this is for anywhere in Canada. It's our legal right.
Should the request be made elsewhere, the local laws would apply to you. ps. Being on the a/c is still considered in Canada.
Hope this helps. :smile_2:

[DRAGOON_MYTH_SLAYER]

The pilots can take their opened water bottles provided for them off the aircraft. Why can't we?

[Babeinsky]

The pilots are allowed to take water w/ them bec. there's smthg in their contract that says they can..and F/a's don't have it in ours.