Uneasy situation with girlfriend.. HELP!!!

[N727NK]

Tonite, my girlfriend came over after she got off of school. She just left for home, as a matter of fact.. We are extremely close, and even though we have not "done it" yet, it really does not matter. We have discussed the prospects of marriage, and both of us find it agreeable. (NO engagement yet, and prolly nothing official for a while..) Here's my dilema..

(This almost has me in tears right now I am so upset)

We were talking tonite and somehow, the subject of names changing when ppl get married came up. Well, I was raised with a lot of old-fashioned ways, some of which I follow, some I do not.. One I do keep, and am EXTREMELY closed-minded about, is the fact that when a girl and guy get married, she takes his last name.. Well, she said tonite she would not want to.. This came as a total shock to me, and I thought at first she may have been just trying to play with my head a bit, as we do it for fun.. Well, I now think she is serious, and I do not know what the hell to say or do. I do not understand WHY she would want to, after all she has been through with her "family" (she says she's basically been disowned but still lives there).

I remember when I was a Pharmacy tech, I'd give ppl their scripts and they'd have hyphenated last names (I.E. Dorothy Smith-Jones) or the couple would not have the same last name at all. It really bugged the hell out of me, and I really wanted to go off on the ladies who would not want to. Actors and actresses are something else too. I can't see why they don't, except maybe that some don't last..

Tonite, she said (and I can't tell if it was the tiredness talking) that it is a matter of the guy wanting to be in "control". To ME, it is a matter of starting a new life, not as 2 seperate people, but as a joined couple, together in it for the long run. I cannot ever see getting married without the girl taking my last name.. We are not celebreties or anything like that.. This has me really upset.. Is it wrong of me to be closed-minded on that? :confus_2:What should I do???!?!?!!?!?!? I am seriously on the verge of tears right now..

-Chris

[sushiseal]

N727NK:

I wish I had an easy answer for you...

Depending on the family situation growing up and how close one is with their family, last names can be very important to one's self-identity, especially when it comes to wether or not to keep it after marriage.

Personally for me, being the second generation offspring of immigrant parents, I can honestly say that my maiden family name is an extremely important part of my cultural identity and makes up a very large part of who I am as a person. For me to give it up completely after marriage would be the same as denying my cultural heritage my parents took care to pass down to me so carefully and lovingly. So to me it's important that the man I eventually end up marrying understands this and can at least accept the fact that I want to keep a hyphenated name to reflect my own background, which I think has a lot to offer.

The best I can say is to talk it over with your girlfriend. Hear out her true reasons for wanting to keep her maiden name. Despite the hardships she may have had with her family, she may still have some very good reasons for wanting to keep it. Sympathy and understanding will get you much further I think and I hope you guys can eventually come up with a comprimise that's good for both of you.

Good-luck and keep us posted!

[Dr. Loverboi]

N727NK,

First of all, you must calm yourself. If you are not getting engaged immediately, then you should not be on pins and needles like this. There is no need for that kind of stress right now.

You will have a lot of other matters to deal with when you do get engaged, and this matter will be somewhere on that list.

Right now, you and she both need to sleep on this. To me, it sounds as if you were both tired when you had this discussion.

You mentioned actresses in your post. As I'm currently dating an actress/model/Playmate, Brande Roderick, I can tell you that the reasons that many of them don't change their names primarily deal with the economics of the entertainment business.

For actresses to be employed, they have to join several unions, the Screen Actors' Guild being one of them. No two actors can ever have the same name, for trade and copyright purposes. Take Michael J. Fox, for example. He had to use the "J" in his name because there was already a Michael Fox registered with those unions.

So, sometimes, they may not change their names due to that. Also, they build up a lot of name recognition throughout their careers, which they may not want to give up, since that factors heavily in how much their name generates, in terms of their earnings power.

Here's the correlation. By changing their names, some females feel a loss of power, freedom, and independence in their lives. In these modern times, with more and more females being independent and empowering themselves, this also makes some feel as if they are going to give up a measure of their hard-fought and hard-won control and independence.

For others, they wish to honor the memory and heritage of their family by keeping their maiden names, no matter what issues exist in their family. In her most eloquent style, Sushiseal has pointed this out to you already. :smile_2:

If your girlfriend's viewpoint, when you take this discussion up again, remains the same, you may need to be flexible enough with this issue to understand that she will still love you, no matter what. Listen to what she tells you as her reasoning for doing so. Try to understand the nature behind that reasoning.

When the time cums for this discussion again, you should have already thought about how you feel for her, and whether you will love her, regardless of whether or not she takes your surname. Remember this: When you do marry, in her mind and heart, she will always think of herself as Mrs. N727NK.

Do keep us posted! :smile_2:

DISCLAIMER: None of the individuals moderating this forum are licensed professionals, and the advice given herein should be taken as friendly advice, and not professional guidance. Always seek the guidance of a licensed professional. For best results, do not dry clean. E. Pluribus Unum.

[bridget74]

You know, it's kinda funny you mentioned this...I seem to be seeing more women who are not taking their husband's last names, and more men who are not liking it.

So, from all honesty, let me explain it from a woman's point of view. And please realize that this is my opinion and my point of view...not a universal truth.

To ME, it is a matter of starting a new life, not as 2 seperate people, but as a joined couple, together in it for the long run.</font color>

As my mother so aptly put it, "I went from being someone's daughter, to someone's wife, to someone's mother." Translation: it has only been fairly recently that women have begun being their OWN person first. Not being seen as someone's daughter, wife, or mother, but being seen as a WHOLE person, separate of someone else.

Think about how much emphasis our society places on whether or not a woman is married. A male is a "Mr.", regardless of whether or not he's married. A woman is a "Miss" if she's not married, or a "Mrs." if she's married. The manner is which she addressed acknowledges her marital status FIRST. Pair that with taking her husband's last name, and the entire way in which she is addressed is entirely wrapped up in 1) whether or not she is married, and 2) her husband's last name.

I think we're seeing a generation of women who are beginning to get a little fed up with the importance society puts on whether or not we're married. Every seen that movie with Jennifer Aniston called "Picture Perfect?" If not, I suggest you go get it to truly understand how marriage affects society's perception of a woman. True, it's a fictional movie, but it has more than a shred of truth in it. I have so many female friends that watch it and groan, because there are so many resemblance to real life. A woman who is married is perceived as being more mature than a woman who ISN'T married, whether she really is or not. It's a struggle I'm having to deal with right now myself.

Why do I babble on about this? Because I think there are a lot of women who are tired of it. I think there are a lot of women who are saying, "I'm my own person, with my own identity, and I don't want to lose that identity just because I get married."

And, believe it or not, giving up that last name is, to a certain degree, giving up part of your identity and taking your husband's. The thought process tends to be: this is who I am, it's who people know me as, and it's who I've been my entire life. I don't want my identity to change just because I get married. And to be truthful, that's what giving up your last name is symbolic of to many women: giving up part of who you are for your husband.

I mean, let's be honest: it makes just as much logical sense for a man to give up his last name for his wife's. Isn't he committing equally to this relationship as well?

Please realize I'm not bitter about the last name issue. I may or may not take my husband's last name if I get married. Nor do I want to paint women as "victims" of society's marital bias. But for many women, there last name is an important tie to their family and to whom they are, and many women don't want to give that up just because they get married.

Does that mean your girlfriend loves you any less or is any less committed to you? ABSOLUTELY NOT. If a woman this independent is giving her love to you, and talking about marrying you, then you must be someone incredibly special. Her not taking your last name is no indication of how she feels about you, but rather an indication that she likes who she is and where she came from, and she wants to keep that for herself. It doesn't make you any less of a couple.

I'm sorry your so upset about this, but please believe me when it means she doesn't love you any less. But let me ask you a question, and please answer in all honesty:
If taking a last name is symbolic of your togetherness, why don't you take her last name? After all, it would become the same last name for both of you.

If you have trouble digesting that idea, then you may understand a little where she's coming from.

I realize my thoughts on this may be somewhat controversial, so please realize that this is JMHO, born from my life experiences. Regardless, I know you're a wonderful person, and I hope you and your girlfriend reach a happy conclusion on this issue.

[flymeaway]

Just another woman's opinions here...take it as you wish.

I can't say that I'm opposed to taking my future hubby's last name...but it is something that I've been sort of internally pondering over for quite some time. I think I can see and understand both sides of the issue, and that's what makes it tough.

From a historical standpoint, your gf is sort of right. I'm not sure that its about 'control' per se - but women were seen as just a step above property. Women were given to the husband's family, with an attractive dowry (for payment to care for her), and for all legal and cutural purposes from their on out, the women belonged to the man's family. That is an icky thing for a modern woman to consider, and it does make a girl stop and wonder how this somewhat archane practice has survived over the years.

For me though, its not so much about that, becaue I know that we don't operate in the same way now. The crux of it is that I am very proud of my name for a lot of different reasons. There aren't many of us in the US, and were all descended from one man who immigrated here not too many generations ago. Well sort of...I'm also adopted, and in the course of finding my birth family and researching my adoptive family's history...well I think I got even more attached to my adoptive family's name and history in the process.

But there's another part of it, too. I'm also proud of (most of..hehe) the things I've done with my name. The things I've accomplished under this name run the risk of disappearing somewhat once I take my hubby's name...think about your own grandmothers. If you can even remember their maiden names, would even know of any of the important things they did with that name if the stories had not been passed down? In researching my family's history, I found that my grandmother had received quite a few commendations from the Women's Army Corps ages ago before she was ever married. Her maiden name had become so dissociated from her present family's history - none of ever knew about it or thought to ask.

But now that I've explained that, let me say that there is a part of me that does want to take his name, to be more 'unified' as a family. But too, how is it truly 'unifying' if only one side is represented in it?

I do think its unfair of you to be angry with women that you don't know simply because they felt it important to retain their last name. The truth is that their reasons for wanting to do that may be just as important and valid to them as your reasons are for wanting the opposite. Same for your girlfriend...hopefully you will both be able to set aside your pride and understand the other's point of view. Maybe then you can come to a compromise or understanding that you both can live with and be proud of.

[Paddles_up]

Ya know Chris,
I think you are taking it tooo personally. I think it's just a sign of independence. You should be proud of her for being independent and opposed to co-dependent. Regardless of how you and she perceive her family.

When I got married, (23 years ago) my to-be husband forbade me to keep may maiden name. He was adamently opposed. Well when we divorced, he again got pissed because I wouldn't assume my maiden name. I chose to keep my married name, not to anger him but because my children had to retain that name too. I wanted to make sure that WE kept the same name. When they are all 18, I'll change it back to my maiden name.

On the flip-side, when my ex re-married, he married the wealthy widow of a physician. She did not want to drop the fine doctor's last name, as it would hinder her status. (This is the funny part.)She retained her former married last name and did not EVEN take his last name.
They now have a kid (yes, he's still reproducing at 45) and the kid has a hyphenated last name...go figure!

[Studley]

Hey Chris,

The ladies and Loverboi are right. You have to understand where's she's coming from on this, and you should understand that you may have to come to a compromise with her.

It sounds like you love your girlfriend a lot. Show her how much you love her by being empathic about what's important to her, such as this. :smile_2:

[skygirl2003]

I must truly agree with everyone, N727NK. It's only a name. That should have no reflection on how she feels about you. Think on it. :laugh: And good luck to both of you.

[Docent75]

You have heard why she might not want to change names. That will help you understand her position the next time that you discuss the topic. On the balance she is being asked to give more than you are. My I suggest a couple of questions you should address before taking a firm stand on sensitive topics? Yes, 1) Is the importance of the topic practical or symbolic? 2) Is winning worth the probable cost? 3) If the answers are No and No, do you want to trade for something more important, or do you want to bank the good will? Next question, what last name will you give the children?

[yoshi]

In reply to:<hr />
what last name will you give the children?




Chris, before I was married, I used to tease my husband about keeping my surname and sometimes it resulted in arguments. But I knew we would have children one day, and they would obviously use their father's name. I didn't want a household w/ 2 different names. It would cause too much confusion. So now I am Mrs. ________. :grin:

I know many women hyphenate both names. I've also seen once where the husband also hyphenated both names! Ever thought of that??

FYI- Did you know in some countries such as Mexico and Philipine, if you are traveling to that country and the mother and child have different surname, they must bring the child's birth certificate confirming they are the mother.

[Snackpack]

Chris,

You wrote above: "To ME, it is a matter of starting a new life, not as 2 seperate people, but as a joined couple, together in it for the long run."

Were it not for purely historical and traditional factors from your heritage, starting a new life, not as separate people, but as a joined couple, could be just as logically/illogically achieved by you both taking her last name. Or neither. Or a completely new one from a third party. The real question is whether you love her unconditionally and whether or not the love is reciprocal.

Sleep on it, think about it and without pricking yourself on any thorns, ponder what Shakespeare wrote about that rose by any other name smelling just as sweet.

If she's really your soulmate, something like a last name won't keep you apart for long. Longterm relationships are forged with compromises. Could this be your first big one?

[lineguy]

What if the girls last name was lipshitz? Still think she might keep her maiden name..LOL :grin:

[bridget74]

Alrighty...funny but true story...

I once met this incredibly beautiful guy from my company. Handsome and incredibly sweet. But in our conversation, I only get his work location and his first name. So the next day at work, I go and look him up in the Employee Directory.

His last name was "Looney."

I kiddeth you not.

Kinda ended the relationship before it even started, you know? :grin: :wink_2:

Sorry...I digress...

[flymeaway]

A great example of times when the man should assume her last name! :smile_2:

[Paddles_up]

In reply to:<hr />
His last name was "Looney."



Hey now, I have a VERY dear friend who's last name is such! He is a sweet guy and definately a "catch"! He's a 747 Capt for a former employer and consequently my neighbor too! :laugh:

[Dr._Playmate]

<font color="purple">LOL Bridget. I know what you mean. I once dated a wonderful man named Nathan Penney. I would have becum Penny Penney. Um.... NO thanks! :grin:

Chris, I know how you feel since I am old fashioned myself. One would never guess this, given my chosen career path which lead me right into Hef's bed. Among my group of female friends, I am the only one who will, without a doubt, take my husband's last name. Yet, we still all feel very strongly about marriage and commitment. Your girlfriend's desire to retain her surname in no way reflects her love for you or undermines the "unity" of your relationship.

Dr. Penny Playmate </font color>

[i]Disclaimer: Data and information is for the humourous consumption of the audience. No one shall be entitled to claim detrimental reliance on any information provided or expressed. Violations of Section 69 are subject to criminal prosecution in a sexual court.

[Karen 737]

<font color="deeppink">
Honey, the whole unity and relationship thing, that's just a saying, like 'ooh, that sounds like fun,' or 'I love you.
Kisses</font color>

[Reba Rae Redneck]

N727NK,

Sweets, I think yer girlfriend might be onta somethin'. If I had it to do over again, I'da stayed with my own last name. As it is, I've had so damn many husbands, I've fergotten what last name I'm on! :crazy:

[Doc._K_N_Owitall]

So, does your last name really suck ?

[Snackpack]

Oh doc, hee hee!

[skygirl2003]

Oh! Don't listen to him, N727 - He (The good Doc) plays mind games. Just ask Studley, he'll tell ya! :crazy:

[Doc._K_N_Owitall]

Alright, I’ll concede to rudeness in my previous post.

But, since you two don’t seem to communicate easily, there may just be a simple reason.
So there was a very serious undertone to my question.
You have to ask her why, buddy.
Worrying about what other people think is so utterly pointless.
Just ask them.
Especially if it’s a woman.
Why on earth would you want to try to figure this out on your own ?

She may indeed not be too fond of your last name.
She may not have brothers and doesn’t want her own name-line to end.
She may just be very proud of her own identity.
Or she may have some other female logic that makes perfect sense to her.

My point ?
Either ask the bloody girl already what her reason is !
Or just be glad that this apparently fantastic girl that you are considering marrying is considering you !
Labels (names) are really not a big deal. You get to hold her every freakin’ night you’re in the room together.

Get my point people ?

[Paddles_up]

In reply to:<hr />
You get to hold her every freakin night youre in the room together



Isn't THAT what counts? That in and of itself is worth it! TRY living 3 thousand miles from her....it's VERY difficult! :frown_2:

[NormarRae101]

so how have things turned out?