Jumpseaters

[Memphis Flyer]

I am a veteran flyer (56 yrs as a pilot/22400 hours) so I know my way around. My pet peeve when as a paying passenger (coach) I observe a deadheading crewmember occupying a first class seat. I appreciate an ocassional upgrade, but I never ask for one. It irks me that a commuting pilot, (His/her choice) is routinely given a first class seat when the guy paying his salary is not. It seems to me that the company employee flying for free should be offered the coach seat if he/she does not ride in the jumpseat up front. I know you are going to love me for saying this. Your response???

[Studley]

I'm not launching an inquisition or starting a flame war here, but there is a question which must be asked.

At the time that you observed them, are you sure that they didn't pay for their tickets, or redeemed miles for their tickets? There are many crew who buy their own tickets to position themselves for their next assignments because they can't risk not getting on the aircraft by deadheading or flying standby.

[Memphis Flyer]

To be fair, I can't always be sure. But at times I know that is the case as I observed the pilot is question signing up for js with the gate clerk or thanking the captain for having him/her on board.. I just don't think it is right for the airline to give something to a company employee that would benefit the company (and the pilot) in good will. The paying customer will possibly remember that airline favorably when it is time to travel again. In this day of the complaining public if I were CEO I would want to do everything I could to enhance a pleasant flight. Besides, is there that many pilots that would pay for first class ticket over coach? Not likely.

[Alt Acquire]

So we`re not allowed to have any "perks of the job then"??
My contract with my airline states that whenever I am positioning crew, we will always be booked in 1st class, whether it is on my own airline or another.

[Paddles_up]

Memphis Flyer,
I have to agree with Alt Aquire. I am a former crew scheduler and the contract that our pilots had at the time required us to book them in business or first class when they "commercialed" into a flight that they had to operate.
On the "flip side", when I "non-rev" I do notice that there are a number of flight crews in first class. I'm not a flight crew member, but when I fly I prefer to sit in coach. Especially if the first class seats are leather because I slip out of them.
The carrier for which I work is just a regional and we don't offer first class seating...just first class service. However our sister company does.
Some carriers don't allow us to sit in thier first class because our carrier doesn't offer first class seating. What's "up with that"?

[flymeaway]

Take this with salt, as I know nothing of the circumstances of your flights, etc...but there are many possible explanations.

First, you mentioned that you never ask for upgrades - many frequent flyer programs require (at least in part) for you to actually ask to be put on the upgrade list. If there are 20 seats up front, 15 taken by full fare passengers, and no upgrades requested or purchased - then those available seats will go to revenue standbys, then non-revenue employees in order by seniority and pass classification.

Second..the new regulations after 9/11 state that cockpit jumpseaters from other airlines can no longer ride in the cockpit - they can only jumpseat if there's an open cabin seat. Maybe coach was full? Maybe the captain wished, for security purposes, that non-revving crew be seated closer to the cockpit? (Some pilots and FA's prefer this.)

Lastly though, and perhaps most importantly...non-revenue travel is part of our benefits package. Your company might offer fat stock options, free disney tickets, first class seats on business travel, or the option to use those FF miles for your own personal travel (and now tax-free, btw)...my company offers free/cheap standby travel. Maybe that pilot was using a hard-earned vacation pass...or maybe he's flying home after an all-nighter from Hong Kong. :smile_2:

In any case, airlines wouldn't make any money if they freely gave first class upgrades to any coach-fare-paying passenger. If that were the case, then who would ever pay full fare for the seat? :smile_2: If your frequent flyer miles would have allowed that seat to you, then a)you should have asked for it or b)you should call your airline and inquire about that particular flight.

Hope that helps!

[brownbat]

I agree with you, M-Flyer. So do many paying passengers. When I'm deadheading or commuting in uniform, I can sense some customers glaring at me as they're walking through First Class en route to Coach. The company PR people must not be aware of the ill-will it can cause for a paying passenger with hard-earned upgrade privileges to be one-upped by a company employee--especially when said employee is a flight attendant. We all know that we don't get the respect we deserve. But we're not going to get there any faster by alienating customers. I've flown with several pilots and flight attendants who say "thanks but no thanks" to First Class upgrades. And I think they're doing the industry, the company, and ultimately themselves a favor. (Sure, we all like a predeparture beverage and a hot meal and a roomy seat. But do we deserve them any more than the people sitting behind the partition? Nope. And they ARE paying our salaries.) :crazy:

[bonzaiflyer]

Brownbat, I'm a Plat on AA and NW with over 250k per year on those carriers combined, 99% domestic. I'm also a former Travel agent, former airline employee (JC/TV/AA) and I currently still have non-rev privledges with AA due to my current employment with the GDS they used to own. So, with all that having been said, here are my thoughts...

If all the rev pax that are eligible for upgrades have been accommodated in F and there are still seats, I think dead head crew in uniform should be given an F seat. Although you're not technically on the clock, if you're heading to work, it makes sense not to start the day uncomfortably.

Non-revs not in uniform should only be accommodated in F if they listed for the flight in F.

Believe me, the FF population would like nothing more than to see those who insure we get to our destinations safely "enjoy" that perk. However, between human nature and being selfish, I gotta say me first then you :wink_2: .

As for those behind the "partition" that are infrequent pax (VFR, vacation, etc), I don't think they would be upset at you for sitting in F. They didn't pay or "earn" an F seat, so they have no expectation to sit in F.

[Jessica]

Many paxs (not all) don't understand all the details/rules/restrictions associated with their desired upgrades. I've many times denied high mileage fliers their upgrades simply because they purchased a ticket that didn't allow it - or that upgrades have gone up and they didn't have enough miles in their accounts to purchase. That being said - if I've accomodated all the ELIGIBLE upgrades (as Bonzaiflyer put it) - I am most certainly going to put crew members/non-revs/and non-rev parents in F class. Many times those folks are making NUMEROUS connections and flying at weird times to get where they're going. I know that I appreciate F class more than anything if I've been flying all day. Sometimes flying "free" can be incredibly taxing! Just my two cents...if anyone cares! :laugh:

[faflys]

AS a first -class flight attendant, I ABSOLUTELY feel that ALL uniformed flight crewmembers should be accommodated in first-class, whenever that accommodation is at hand. This is a gesture of respect for their position in the aviation industry, a symbol of appreciation for a job well-done, and an entitlement of someone traveling to/from home or work who has no self-interest in the 'First-Class Perks.'

Anyone, INCLUDING passengers, who does not feel this the least we AND they could do for our fellow crew would be well-served to introspect their position.

[yoshi]

faflys I agree w/ you. I always tell the jumpseaters, whether f/a or pilots to sit up front if their is an empty seat, (of course after all the non-revs are cleared) however I've had some decline unless I personally inform the crew. Seems some working crew members have a problem w/ it. :confus_2:

[Skymaid]

I have a friend who works for a national restaurant corp. which owns several popular chains. Their employees are allowed free and/or highly discounted food, depending on what it is they are ordering. Now, when I go into those restaurants I am "paying the salaries" of those employees. Does that mean I should be entitled to the food for free instead of them? Every company has employee perks and benefits. It's just too bad that ours are sometimes so noticeable to the customer.

[lineguy]

In regards to this thread I think it is fine for a deadhead crew to occupy f/c. My pet peeve is the "commuting pilot" who is off line. More than once I have been given the last and worse seat in the airplane and an offline j/s has a better seat. I will take this one further. I was going from MEM-SEA-HNL with my brother and his girlfriend. As you know if you fly first on ANY segment you pay for the entire trip. Well all three of us got first from MEM-SEA. The SEA-HNL was quite full as they usually are. I noticed an off duty UAL pilot filling out the xcm slip at the counter he was in plain clothes. He had his UAL flight bag though. When it came time to board the agent said there were only 2 seats left in F/C so one of us would have to sit in coach. Being nice I gave the two F/C seats to my brother and girlfriend and I wound up in the middle seat in coach in the DC-10. We boarded at door 2L so I could not get a good view of F/C. When we arrived in HNL I was in the galley waiting for the F/C people to deplane first from door 2L again and who did I see get up from a first class seat? Yep that offline UAL jumpseater. MAN I WAS LIVID! I actually confronted the UAL guy in the terminal. I told him I was an active NW employee on a vacation pass split up from my travel partners and had to pay F/C charges while riding in the worst seat on the airplane for 5+hrs. While I told him I did not blame him (hell I will take a good deal too) I reminded him if the pilots are going to jumpseat free of charge than they should ride there. I also sent a nastygram to SEA but as per usual no one pays any attention to a nastygram unless it is a pilot writing it. That has really been my only complaint about it. If F/C is avail and no other employees of higher seniority are bump off (this is for commuter pilots not deadhead) I have no problem with it.

[yoshi]

Lineguy, that's why I believe in taking care of our own first, then spreading the love around to our offline family. I won't mention the particular airline but everytime I pass ride on them, it seems I alway get seated in the last row never once been offered f/c. Even once on an international flight where f/c is wide open I wasn't offered that courtesey of riding up front and I would never ask. Unfortunately whenever their employees ride on us, I always say what comes around goes around but I'm not that type of person and I still upgrade them or try to find them the best seat possible. Then I want to kick myself for doing it afterward.

[777FlyGuy]

At United, the pilots have it in their contract that if they're deadheading, they always receive First Class unless it is full of Full fare F passengers. (Believe you me, this causes no amount of love loss amongst the other employee groups.) Also, when they transfer bases, they get higher priority passes for a year after their transfer takes effect. (I always wonder, does it really take them an entire year to move? I get one positive space ticket when I transfer. Things that make you go hmm....)

For the rest of us pee-ons, when we are deadheading or traveling on company business, we can book business on a 3 class airplane or coach on a 2 class airplane. We do get upgraded before non-revs, but not before all revs have had the opportunity to upgrade.

I can sympathize with Yoshi. I have had other airline employees on board many times and wanted to upgrade them, but United policy is extremely strict. We are NOT allowed to upgrade as flight attendants, except in cases of safety issues (ie. broken seat, etc.). Customer Service has to be really careful too. It's sad, but you never know who might write you up for something. (A friend of mine just got written up by a non-reving station agent for not showing the proper scheduled movie.) I always feel horrible when I fly on other carriers and they treat us so well. Hopefully, in the future, our policies will become less rigid and more flexible.

[Paddles_up]

I agree with you 777Flyguy.
If we ALL have the attitude that it is a priveledge, then when special favors are afforded us it makes the system that much more favorable.
However, if we address the "non-rev system" in such a manner as to take advantage of everything, then the system will eventually fail! :mad_2: I say "don't look a gift horse in the mouth"!