CYNIC
February 10, 2003, 12:54 PM
Hi Martin
This forum is no different from an "open mike phone in show. You chose to use this bulletin board as a forum to publicly post your platform. We all deserve the right to have our questions answered and remain anonymous. Just like a radio talk show. You say you want openness, but this tactic is like the old time unionism where legs were broken and intimidation was the rule. Your method of screening your responses is a form of intimidation. You chose not to rebut on any comments posted on the site unless certain conditions are met. I feel that what you have done could be viewed as "selective democracy". "Lets hide from the tough questions regardless of who asks/post them"! Is this not, what you accuse the other side of doing?
Should you choose to answer me or not is up to you. I am sure there will be posts from others trying to explain, but I would like to hear it "from the horses mouth".
If you don't reply, the rest of the viewers will have to draw their owne conclusions?.
For the record!
1) I have never sought election or been appointed to any union position.
2) I have never been on any union committee.
3) I see unions as a necessary evil.
4) I have always voted in union matters.
5) I have always voted my conscious, based on facts.
6) I have not always agreed on the out come of the union decision but I still supported it for the good of all.
I have read the united teams platform. I feel that there are more "Motherhood" statement, but little substance. Quite frankly some of your positions are rather disconcerting given the present state of the company. Have you not read the articles in the financial sections of our newspapers? The companies present position all but rosy?
Answer this.
If the company does not want to negotiate with the union and enacts "force majour" to substantially reduce the # of FA's how are you going to protect junior flight attnds? Without a doubt you will have to re-negotiate but not from a position of strength, it has been done in the passed and I have no doubt that it will happen very soon.
Given your present stand on ZIP.
Answer this.
In order to keep those FA's jobs will you cancel the Loyalty Bonus and give it back to the company.
What will you expect in return?
Will you try to scuttle the current ZIP agreement?
The reality of a low cost carrier is inevitable, would you sacrifice the entire workforce and hold a gun to the companies head and demand that they get the same wage and work conditions as the Main line?
Would you proceed the way it is now, and TRY to work out a deal where FA jobs are saved even at a lower rate of pay and less rigorous work rules?
The Birkett Award. Reading through your material there is a statement, "Regardless who wins the election, these processes will continue until their natural conclusion."
Answer this.
Will the "united team" allow the process to continue or will it force a closure?
Will it allow those who want to overthrow the decision access to union's resources, financial, legal and/or moral support in order to overturning of the Burkett Award?
Will the team defend and enforce the decision even in court?
Will the team deny any funds, for an appeal, or access to the union's legal team?
You have made a lot of motherhood statements about democracy, communication, health and safety etc. These are well and good but there are no explanations on how these areas have failed us in the recent past. Moreover how do you intend to change the system that we have now? Actually I feel that all these areas have improved, and quite frankly, are pretty good. We are all pretty good at bitching crabbing and complaining, but when it comes to the crunch we fall apart. Especially when we have to take the time to sit down and document a complaint even the simple ones.
Answer this.
What steps will you take to make those areas more effective and efficient?
You said that any future merge will be don in order of seniority.
Under networking, you said that you would retain strong ties with CUPE National.
If CUPE National support the reopening the Burkett Appeal it will effect all of us.
There are pros and cons, those who support the Cail side, would probably wish to retain within, because of passed allies and the possibility of improving their relative seniority position. While AC side would like to divorce itself from the current position, saving the union $600,000.00 + per year and the influence of a perceived pro cail bias.
Answer this.
Will the team move to form a separate division within CUPE or will it maintain the present system?
If an appeal is launched by the National will you support it?
The "Tanner Group" The present administration has chosen (correct me if I'm wrong) not to support it. Your team, or its supporters appear to support the support and perhaps objectives of the Tanner Group. There are a number of issues that are very confrontations and would cause more division both within the whole, and perhaps with the team.
Answer this.
What is the connection of the Tanner Group with respect to your campaign?
Do you, or your team support their objectives?
I might be wrong but I thought that unions are there to support all members, some times decisions have to be made that will disenfranchise one group or another. At times decisions that will have to be made that will be the view of the majority. Some times decisions may go against convention but have to be made for the benifit of all in order to be fair. This site is very vocal and politically motivated, One must point out that it does not always provide accurate information. What is worse, a part truth or a lie? All is fair in love, war, and politics I guess!
Answer this.
How will the teams policies differ from the your competition?
At this juncture of our history, we all have a vested interest. Junior FA's do not have a monopoly here. If juniors lose their job there is a good probability that seniors can loose their job too. Don't forget senior only is a matter of perspective. What is junior 2yrs 5yrs? What is senior 30yrs, 15yrs. It's relative.
Answer this.
What special skills do you and the team have to deal with the company? What is your track record?
Where have you proven yourself in the passed?
What kind of organization do you have to rely on?
Do you truly feel that it is time to take a leap of faith given the ramifications?
It is a given that, "The old AC" went through a similar negotiations. It was successfully. Hollis Harris was in the same position many years ago. The medicine was tough, and it hurt, and it was hard to swallow. There were salary cuts, lay off's, leaves, job sharing, everything was done to protect everyone, juniors and seniors. It worked but everyone pulled together to ensure that the plan succeeded.
Answer this.
What will you differently?
What kind of new dynamic will you bring to the table that has not been used in the passed?
Enough said, I await your reply or not!
My questions are fair and deserve a reply. If the other side were to post on the site I would pose the same questions. Since you chose to publish here I wish to exercise my democratic right.
In solidarity
This forum is no different from an "open mike phone in show. You chose to use this bulletin board as a forum to publicly post your platform. We all deserve the right to have our questions answered and remain anonymous. Just like a radio talk show. You say you want openness, but this tactic is like the old time unionism where legs were broken and intimidation was the rule. Your method of screening your responses is a form of intimidation. You chose not to rebut on any comments posted on the site unless certain conditions are met. I feel that what you have done could be viewed as "selective democracy". "Lets hide from the tough questions regardless of who asks/post them"! Is this not, what you accuse the other side of doing?
Should you choose to answer me or not is up to you. I am sure there will be posts from others trying to explain, but I would like to hear it "from the horses mouth".
If you don't reply, the rest of the viewers will have to draw their owne conclusions?.
For the record!
1) I have never sought election or been appointed to any union position.
2) I have never been on any union committee.
3) I see unions as a necessary evil.
4) I have always voted in union matters.
5) I have always voted my conscious, based on facts.
6) I have not always agreed on the out come of the union decision but I still supported it for the good of all.
I have read the united teams platform. I feel that there are more "Motherhood" statement, but little substance. Quite frankly some of your positions are rather disconcerting given the present state of the company. Have you not read the articles in the financial sections of our newspapers? The companies present position all but rosy?
Answer this.
If the company does not want to negotiate with the union and enacts "force majour" to substantially reduce the # of FA's how are you going to protect junior flight attnds? Without a doubt you will have to re-negotiate but not from a position of strength, it has been done in the passed and I have no doubt that it will happen very soon.
Given your present stand on ZIP.
Answer this.
In order to keep those FA's jobs will you cancel the Loyalty Bonus and give it back to the company.
What will you expect in return?
Will you try to scuttle the current ZIP agreement?
The reality of a low cost carrier is inevitable, would you sacrifice the entire workforce and hold a gun to the companies head and demand that they get the same wage and work conditions as the Main line?
Would you proceed the way it is now, and TRY to work out a deal where FA jobs are saved even at a lower rate of pay and less rigorous work rules?
The Birkett Award. Reading through your material there is a statement, "Regardless who wins the election, these processes will continue until their natural conclusion."
Answer this.
Will the "united team" allow the process to continue or will it force a closure?
Will it allow those who want to overthrow the decision access to union's resources, financial, legal and/or moral support in order to overturning of the Burkett Award?
Will the team defend and enforce the decision even in court?
Will the team deny any funds, for an appeal, or access to the union's legal team?
You have made a lot of motherhood statements about democracy, communication, health and safety etc. These are well and good but there are no explanations on how these areas have failed us in the recent past. Moreover how do you intend to change the system that we have now? Actually I feel that all these areas have improved, and quite frankly, are pretty good. We are all pretty good at bitching crabbing and complaining, but when it comes to the crunch we fall apart. Especially when we have to take the time to sit down and document a complaint even the simple ones.
Answer this.
What steps will you take to make those areas more effective and efficient?
You said that any future merge will be don in order of seniority.
Under networking, you said that you would retain strong ties with CUPE National.
If CUPE National support the reopening the Burkett Appeal it will effect all of us.
There are pros and cons, those who support the Cail side, would probably wish to retain within, because of passed allies and the possibility of improving their relative seniority position. While AC side would like to divorce itself from the current position, saving the union $600,000.00 + per year and the influence of a perceived pro cail bias.
Answer this.
Will the team move to form a separate division within CUPE or will it maintain the present system?
If an appeal is launched by the National will you support it?
The "Tanner Group" The present administration has chosen (correct me if I'm wrong) not to support it. Your team, or its supporters appear to support the support and perhaps objectives of the Tanner Group. There are a number of issues that are very confrontations and would cause more division both within the whole, and perhaps with the team.
Answer this.
What is the connection of the Tanner Group with respect to your campaign?
Do you, or your team support their objectives?
I might be wrong but I thought that unions are there to support all members, some times decisions have to be made that will disenfranchise one group or another. At times decisions that will have to be made that will be the view of the majority. Some times decisions may go against convention but have to be made for the benifit of all in order to be fair. This site is very vocal and politically motivated, One must point out that it does not always provide accurate information. What is worse, a part truth or a lie? All is fair in love, war, and politics I guess!
Answer this.
How will the teams policies differ from the your competition?
At this juncture of our history, we all have a vested interest. Junior FA's do not have a monopoly here. If juniors lose their job there is a good probability that seniors can loose their job too. Don't forget senior only is a matter of perspective. What is junior 2yrs 5yrs? What is senior 30yrs, 15yrs. It's relative.
Answer this.
What special skills do you and the team have to deal with the company? What is your track record?
Where have you proven yourself in the passed?
What kind of organization do you have to rely on?
Do you truly feel that it is time to take a leap of faith given the ramifications?
It is a given that, "The old AC" went through a similar negotiations. It was successfully. Hollis Harris was in the same position many years ago. The medicine was tough, and it hurt, and it was hard to swallow. There were salary cuts, lay off's, leaves, job sharing, everything was done to protect everyone, juniors and seniors. It worked but everyone pulled together to ensure that the plan succeeded.
Answer this.
What will you differently?
What kind of new dynamic will you bring to the table that has not been used in the passed?
Enough said, I await your reply or not!
My questions are fair and deserve a reply. If the other side were to post on the site I would pose the same questions. Since you chose to publish here I wish to exercise my democratic right.
In solidarity