The Truth about what AA did to TWA F/A's

[baritone777]

I think it's pretty obvious that there is no chance of furloughed ex-TWA employees getting on AA's seniority list. In many ways, this thread is an arguement about what has happened in the recent and/or distant past. Well, the past is the past, and all that really matters in life is the present and future.
My point is that the "stapling" of TWA F/A's to the bottom of APFA's seniority list could easily come back to haunt (and hurt) AA F/A's. It doesnt matter if the management or the union is to blame, or the nature of TWA's atrocious finances at the time of the acquisition. Historically, the U.S. legal system does not give a rat's hindquarters about the issues that employees think they should. Remember that the ex-TWA F/A's tried to fight this in court...and lost. The only issue raised by the court in it's decision, if memory serves, is that TWA F/A's (represented by the IAM) essentially had no, repeat no, seniority merger policies in either their contract or union constitution that would have entitled them to a DOH seniority merge or arbitrated seniority merge.

Folks, we can argue eternally of what we think is "right" or "fair" or what "should" be done, but it is really irrelevant. What is relevant is what kind of legal language do you have to protect yourself, your employment, and your seniority if the carrier you work for is acquired, or merged, or is the acquiring party. If you don't have much merger language at this stage of the game, then figure out a way to get it, fast. It is the only friend you can have. As the TWA F/A's have learned the hard way, all other arguements do not matter.

Given AA's pre-eminence in todays airline industry, it is seductively easy for AA employees to assume that if there was ever an acquisition, that AA would be doing the buying. I think that is a terribly dangerous and arrogant assumption.

But don't take my word for it. Start logging onto the different airline news sites on the web. If you get even a small group of airline analysts together, the only thing they argue about concerning airline consolidation (mergers & acquisitions) is what form it will take....but the consolidation part itself is not argued. It is considered a given. I think US employees have their heads in the sand on this. It still shocks me that most US airline employees I work with do not know that Air France acquired KLM, or that the Bush administration is working very hard with the CEO of UAL to overturn rules on foreign ownership of US airlines. However you feel about (for instance) British Airways acquiring American Airlines, you have to admit that it changes everything for AA F/A's overnight, and the tables are turned, if they do not have the protection that TWA folks lacked.

[Still Hopeful]

Well said.

Just for the record, the TW pilots and f/a's DID have such provisions in our contracts. Here is a snippet from Missouri's then state senator, Christopher Bond's opening statement at a discovery hearing on the matter: (2003)


Now, in the lead up to the Bankruptcy Court approval of American's acquisition of TWA assets, a number of good faith steps were taken by TWA. In particular, TWA at the request of American, agreed to enter into bankruptcy in order to shed some of it's other obligations. TWA employees, particularly the pilots and flight attendants represented by their respective unions, agreed, again at the request of American, to waive the Allegheny Mohawk provisions in their contracts in exchange for written promises and assurances from American Airlines that they would be integrated fairly into American's workforce.


The Allegheny Mohawk provisions in their contracts guaranteed TWA pilots and flight attendants the option to have their integration into any purchasers's workforce decided by an independent neutral third party, provided no agreement on integration could be reached between TWA's and the purchasers's unions. According to the provisions, this independent arbitration would be binding.

These steps were taken with some risk to TWA and their employees. But in the interests of integrating the two airlines quickly and smoothly, the TWA pilots and flight attendants in good faith placed their trust in assurances made to them by American Airlines — it's management and unions.

http://bond.senate.gov/atwork/recordtopic.cfm?id=205019

There was MUCH discussion about this on the property and out on the line! This was not a popular idea -- yet we, as a group were not given the opportunity to vote on the issue. And yes, there is blame for our IAM representation.

Yes, as stated earlier. It was a REAL possibility that our jobs would have ended without the acquisition. That would have been easier to swallow -- than to have been led to believe in "One Bright Future!" (Then AA Mr. Carty's words) All of the hooplah and lies are galling.

And yes, what is REALLY important is the present and the future! Barritone777 -- you are a bright spot -- and your thoughts are very insightful and unbiased. I appreciate that!

I stumbled across this message board -- and throw two cents in here and there. Otherwise, honestly not still stewing over the loss of my former job. I actually took a flying job with another airline for about 1 1/2 yrs. after my furlough. Resigned because it just "ain't what it used to be" for me! The only reason I would like to accept a AA recall would be to secure those flight benefits. I really miss those! Would also qualify for a small healthcare package.

Best to all!

[Still Hopeful]

Just to clarify: American F/A's are represented by APFA (Association of Professional Flight Attendants) , and yes they are independant.

TW F/A's were represented (supposedly ) by the IAM (International Association of Machinest) which is AFL-CIO.
(American Federation of Labor and Congress of Industrial Organizations)

AFA is also AFL-CIO -- so what you said is true! Just wanted to expand.

When a "union" is independant -- they are not held to the same standards. In other words, the whole acquisition deal would have been a whole lot less likely to have gone down the way it did had both sides been AFL-CIO.

(tried to delete this because I was attempting to post on page 2 of this thread. Would someone be so kind as to clue me on how to delete?! Thanks. FAQ section simply said I could delete from the edit page. I'm just not seeing it here. Thanks!)

[genea]

fair enough,you've explained your point very well.apologies if any offence caused.

[beetree]

You can be "still hopeful" but as a few others in this forum have mentioned, probably time to move on--I only wish I had moved on when Carl Ichan came into the picture and NOT waited until I turned 50--I would have been heads above where I am now financially. Yes, I was able to take a paltry sum and roll it into an IRA and yes I now have some retirement benefits with AA. However, had I chucked that mess that was TWA from the get-go financially (read it's history, in the red for most of it's existence, and putting that mostly on the backs of its' employees) and put that energy into another career as I have since leaving TWA---I would have a much better retirement.

My point is that of BlueSkies, TWA always sold us down the river--I left more because of that reason than turning 50 and wanting early retirement-- I saw the writing on the wall and ran while I could. The fact that AA has kept TWA retirees in their fold is far more generous than anything TWA would have ever done for me after 25 years of work. Owners/management proved that over and over again as they stole from my paycheck for years to pay back Carl Ichan after so readily embracing him as a savior when he came knocking--without a thought of me, the employee. I really did not expect to get anything from AA after they bought TWA since I had already retired. That is my point.

You people that think TWA owners and management cared what happened to you need to get real--they never did--read the history, look at it. Stop blaiming AA or someone else--and look at TWA for what it was--a lousy employer with lousy managers and greedy owners, thus they are fini--at their own hands.

I think AA actually wanted to make it work for all--unfortunately 9/11 came along and all changed overnight for everyone.

[Still Hopeful]

Beetree ..... sigh ........ your points are well taken. I understand what you are saying! You and I are making different points.

Imagine, you're on a sinking ship (TWA) and realize that it is a good time to get on a lifeboat (move on). Then in the horizon you see a huge ship from the Coast Guard (AA) . What a relief! The large ship approaches your sinking ship. The officers offer a rescue. They throw you a big party! On the way back to land, there are awful storms (9-11) that necessitates leaving some of the rescued passengers (F/As) behind in lifeboats (unemployment line) . The officers say they will be back for you (get you back on the line) just as soon as possible. The Coast Guard never returns .....

LOL -- even I am rolling eyes and chuckling at that little story picture! But perhaps it illustrates what I am trying to convey!

AA is the only major airline that has not recalled F/As that were furloughed due to 9-11. APFA is actively against any recalls (or extending recall rights) until mid 2008. (the expiration date for recall rights of all former TW F/As) THey actually brag about this in their quarterly (?) publication that is mailed to my home BECAUSE I AM A MEMBER! This is a so called union actively ostracizing a group of their own!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YayAONi07s0




http://trustno1-1.blogspot.com/



htttp://cbs11tv.com/video/?id=12823@ktvt.dayport.com



and finally for ex-TWs with any fond memories:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wvox1qYAk8g




Best to all!!

[CO/HNL-IAH]

AWESOME video! Beautiful computer animation!! Perfect music!!!

[silverbird300]

Originally Posted by Jenny@Nw

I see, the diffenence of viewpoint. Nonetheless you are correct in one aspect- what is done is done however it is very hard for a person to transition over to another job or field after being forced out of a position after - for example 30 years. A sudden job loss is like a sudden "death" and which a person has no control over- and also having an identity taken away. It is easy for an outsider to make comments about how it is easy and it looks simple to just get another job. But for the person this is happening to- the memories, friendship, the job, routines- are suddenly gone and some people need time to heal from this.

Hi jenny,
Your post is full of emotional babble. In a perfect world that's how things should be, but I hate to burst your bubble, we don't leave in a perfect world. As other people have correctly noted here, the AA TWA transaction was not a merger but an asset buyout, and to not bore you with details, the only way this transaction was going to take place was if some of the unions were willing to forego some of their contractual rights, unfortunately one of those rights requested by the then CEO of AA Donald Carty was seniority implementation. I cannot speak for the FA's but for the Pilots you had a combination of two different unions at which point if lets say both were represented by ALPA, then as a nationalized union there would have been rules already inplace to merge the seniorities,(such will be the case if USair and Delta or UAL and Continental etc..decide to merge) but AA pilots are represented by APA and the TWA pilots by ALPA, the intergration issue was left upto APA.

[Jenny@Nw]

My post is not full of this "emotional babble" rather from a viewpoint of someone who was schooled in the social sciences.

People put on different hats every day, such as being mothers, fathers, sons, daughters, veterans, cancer survivor, ect. all part of what a person is because that past makes what a person is today.

You aren't bursting my "bubble" per say, but just repeating everyone else. Even looking at NW right now, they are poising themselves to be bought out.
I guess they are just "shocked" that no one wants us. (LOL) so now they had to go hire a consultant...
None of those people up there care about us employees. Not a single one. All they care about is how much money they are going to make when the deal is done and who cares about anyone else.
Thanks for getting that fishing rod out.

[MNBluestater]

Originally Posted by baritone777

I think it's pretty obvious that there is no chance of furloughed ex-TWA employees getting on AA's seniority list. In many ways, this thread is an arguement about what has happened in the recent and/or distant past. Well, the past is the past, and all that really matters in life is the present and future.
My point is that the "stapling" of TWA F/A's to the bottom of APFA's seniority list could easily come back to haunt (and hurt) AA F/A's. It doesnt matter if the management or the union is to blame, or the nature of TWA's atrocious finances at the time of the acquisition. Historically, the U.S. legal system does not give a rat's hindquarters about the issues that employees think they should. Remember that the ex-TWA F/A's tried to fight this in court...and lost. ...

I have to add, that the Association of Flight Attendants, which has a history of promoting the flight attendant career, and now represents 46,000 US flight attendants, has a policy of merging seniority lists by date of hire. They know, and have known for years, that the rancor between employee groups who are unfair to the other is never forgotten. For example, NWA, represented by the Teamsters, tried it with Republic (AFA) in the mid-80's and eventually the lists were merged relatively fairly. All the while the NWA f/a's treated the Republic f/a's like yesterday's news, but they got their comeuppance later.

Regardless of whether APFA was independent, or saw that the other unions were "stapling on" the employee groups, they SHOULD have done the honorable thing, and, in promoting the career, given the TWA people credit for years of service. Twenty years later they are still living with the friction that they caused.